Some questions

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Some questions

Unread postby CeeVee » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:59 pm

I am no scientist and my last formal education in electrical matters was over 50 years ago in high school, so apologies in advance if I’m asking dumb questions or getting terminology wrong.

So onto my questions:
What about transmission losses?
From what I remember you can’t transmit electrical current without incurring losses due to resistance. I could understand a superconducting pathway in the depths of space but what about round or through a star?

Is the flow in a Birkeland current in one direction only?
If we take the simple case of the Sun and Earth does the output node from the Sun link to the input node on Earth and the output node from the Earth link to the input node of the Sun?

What sort of diameter does a stream have in relation to the body it’s attached to?
Is the stream diameter smaller than the body diameter? Can it be equal or perhaps larger?

How does a stream traverse a body?
Does it form an envelope around the body? Is it a surface effect? Does it traverse through the body?

Are there any energy losses incurred in traversing a body?
This is similar to my first question but specifically aimed a Birkeland current moving through/round a body rather than through vacuum.

If we use the Solar system as an example, what are the Birkeland current nodes and linkages between the masses in the Solar System?

Is there a lower mass limit that is able to support a Birkeland node?
If not then would all the individual bodies within the solar system be connected?
Using a simplistic example would the Sun have nodes connecting it to both the Earth and Moon and would the Earth and Moon also be connected?

If we postulate a Birkeland current between say Earth and Mars, what happens to the current path as the two planets arrive on opposite sides of the Sun?

If all the bodies in the Solar System are connected by Birkeland currents the we would have all sorts of possible angular intersections between currents. What happens if two intersecting Birkeland currents are travelling in opposite approach each other? What happens if two Birkeland currents travelling in the same direction approach each other? What happens if two Birkeland currents travelling at right angles approach each other?

The implication, if the previous statement were true, would be that each node on a planetary body would have multiple Birkeland currents using it, entering/leaving for multiple destinations.

Those are the questions that spring to mind immediately after watching the videos, I’n sure I’ll have more as responses come in and I think about this a bit more.
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby CeeVee » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:43 pm

A couple of hundred views in a month but zero replies.

So, are my questions that dumb?

or are people here really that disinterested in entering into discussions?

If it's the former, please educate me with a few pointers to literature

If the latter than I guess I'm wasting my time coming here.
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby Webbman » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:46 pm

What if the star is the location of the power loss/resistance?
The secret to the universe is a rubber band.
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby jacmac » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:17 pm

Too many questions of a vague nature at once.
Too many 'what if's' at once.
Do some more reading.
Ask better questions.
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby antosarai » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:58 am

Why should you ask questions about specifics? Do you suppose someone, anyone can answer them?

When there is no consensus, no established theories, just hypotheses, some even mutually contradictory amongst them?
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby nick c » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:51 am

CeeVee,
Those are legitimate questions. I too, am not an expert and will defer to the plasma physicists and electrical engineers that may or may not enter in to this conversation.
But here is my understanding, a few basic premises of the EU that may be pertinent to your questions:
-Space is a good conductor but not a superconductor. If it were a superconductor there would be no effective charge separation as it would be neutralized in short time.
-In the EU model, Birkeland currents can be incredibly large depending on the scale and they exist at all scales that we can observe. Scaling is a fundamental tenet of the EU. Galactic currents must be many thousands (?) of light years in length and width. So it is fundamentally the same processes that can be observed in a lab only it is scaled up to cosmic levels.
-As follows from the above, there must be even larger Birkeland currents between Galaxies and also between Galactic groups. Where does it end? We don't know.
-Electric currents move in circuits
-A plasma in space may or may not be overall neutral. But overall neutrality does not mean that there is not charge separation in areas of a plasma, in fact that is the case. So there is current flow within the plasma. Again think of scales.

recommended reading:
A Beginners Guide
An Essential Guide
Misconceptions
Holoscience Synopsis
The Electric Sky
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby D_Archer » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:46 am

It is easy to miss a post ( i did miss yours), also your post is very long with many questions, sometimes it is better to start with just one question or just a few. I do like answering questions. I put in some thoughts. Regards, Daniel

CeeVee wrote:I am no scientist and my last formal education in electrical matters was over 50 years ago in high school, so apologies in advance if I’m asking dumb questions or getting terminology wrong.

So onto my questions:
What about transmission losses?
From what I remember you can’t transmit electrical current without incurring losses due to resistance. I could understand a superconducting pathway in the depths of space but what about round or through a star?


There are indeed superconducting pathways in space, they are called Birkeland Currents, but yes even in Birkelend currents resistance occurs (but not losses, no energy is ever really lost, it gets reused always), we do not know the exact triggers yet, but the results are kink instabilities and z-pinches (where stars are born, lots of resistance). A star would be a resistor but it is also a charge processing entity, in through the poles out through the equator mostly.

Is the flow in a Birkeland current in one direction only?
If we take the simple case of the Sun and Earth does the output node from the Sun link to the input node on Earth and the output node from the Earth link to the input node of the Sun?


It is bi directional, charge flows both ways, but the flows do not interfere (generally), they form concentric cylinders and tubes.

What sort of diameter does a stream have in relation to the body it’s attached to?
Is the stream diameter smaller than the body diameter? Can it be equal or perhaps larger?


A Birkeland current can be any size, as far as we currently know. I do not know of any relationship, but Birkeland current can produce a star (z-pinch) but also a galaxy (galactic pinch) and micro z-pinch can create?

How does a stream traverse a body?
Does it form an envelope around the body? Is it a surface effect? Does it traverse through the body?


Charge (photons) goes through a body, in at the poles, out mostly at the equator, E/M (ions and electrons) does not, it is resisted mostly, it would envelop the body and go past it, ie the pinch, that is why we see E/M at the sun for instance as surface effects and that is why EU says the sun is electric. Don Scott had a good talk about the z-pinch, like two umbrellas touching, you would have to look it up. (it might be in Don's workshop, not sure > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIFR67sckK0 )

Are there any energy losses incurred in traversing a body?
This is similar to my first question but specifically aimed a Birkeland current moving through/round a body rather than through vacuum.


No, energy is never lost.

If we use the Solar system as an example, what are the Birkeland current nodes and linkages between the masses in the Solar System?


From Poles to Poles, best example is the NASA discoveries at saturn with visual > https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2069.html

Is there a lower mass limit that is able to support a Birkeland node?
If not then would all the individual bodies within the solar system be connected?
Using a simplistic example would the Sun have nodes connecting it to both the Earth and Moon and would the Earth and Moon also be connected?


Not really, yes all connected and yes.

If we postulate a Birkeland current between say Earth and Mars, what happens to the current path as the two planets arrive on opposite sides of the Sun?


It will probably no longer be there.... if Earth and Mars interact at all, it would be closes approach between them, not when they are farthest apart.

If all the bodies in the Solar System are connected by Birkeland currents the we would have all sorts of possible angular intersections between currents. What happens if two intersecting Birkeland currents are travelling in opposite approach each other? What happens if two Birkeland currents travelling in the same direction approach each other? What happens if two Birkeland currents travelling at right angles approach each other?


This does not happen. If Birkeland currents meet, they twist around each other (like a DNA helix), they do not really touch nor intersect.

The implication, if the previous statement were true, would be that each node on a planetary body would have multiple Birkeland currents using it, entering/leaving for multiple destinations.


This is not a question :geek:

Those are the questions that spring to mind immediately after watching the videos, I’n sure I’ll have more as responses come in and I think about this a bit more.


Cool, thinking is great.

If you are interested in Electricity i would advise to start with everything Nikolai Tesla, that was my entry into Electricity, i devoured everything about Tesla in my teens (20 years ago, oops) , it is also how i discovered the Electric Universe and this forum.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby CeeVee » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:38 pm

"It will probably no longer be there.... if Earth and Mars interact at all, it would be closes approach between them, not when they are farthest apart."

Are you hinting at a distance limitation for Birkeland currents?

I would have thought that the idea of galactic and inter-galactic currents would have negated that idea.

It also raises the possibility of the currents turning off and on but I'm not convinced of this as I don't really see what the change agent for starting/stopping the current would be.
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby Cargo » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:45 pm

If all the bodies in the Solar System are connected by Birkeland currents


What if, they are not? Only some times. All the planets are 100% connected with the sun. All the moons are 100% connected with their planet. Everything else, comes and goes.

Right now, there is no 'circuit' between Earth and Mars right now. But change their positions, or have a Close Encounter, and watch out for the thunderbolt as the two bodies exchange a current.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: Some questions

Unread postby D_Archer » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:42 am

CeeVee wrote:"It will probably no longer be there.... if Earth and Mars interact at all, it would be closes approach between them, not when they are farthest apart."

Are you hinting at a distance limitation for Birkeland currents?

I would have thought that the idea of galactic and inter-galactic currents would have negated that idea.

It also raises the possibility of the currents turning off and on but I'm not convinced of this as I don't really see what the change agent for starting/stopping the current would be.


What creates Birkeland currents?

Answer: charge interaction.

If Mars and Earth are far apart their charge fields do not interact, closer they do.

You seem to treat Birkeland current as self sustaining entities, they are not.

Think of the water bridge, the water is charged, the bridge is a birkeland current, connected to both bodies of water, it does not exist unto itself.

This would mean that galactic Birkeland currents are connected to even larger bodies of matter (charge structures) and beyond.

Regards,
Daniel

ps. Charge is photons, or smaller particles than ions and electrons. ( this is not in EU, but it should be). All matter recycles charge, into the poles, mostly out at the equator, when 2 bodies interact, it just means that the charge they recycle is also recycled among them, the closer they are together, the more charge is recycled, charge is streams of photons, they would carrry ions/electrons (or push) along with them and that is when you get the Birkeland currents that show E/M (ions/electrons) effects.
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