We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air is g

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:51 pm

jimmcginn wrote:
seasmith wrote:
jimmcginn wrote:
I agree that our atmosphere is, actually, a slight plasma and plasmas have higher viscosity than gas, and electricity is involved in that respect. But, no, I don't think electricity is involved as a source of the energy of storms or vortices.


Explain then if you can please, this long-lasting "River in the Sky":

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/v ... c=eoa-iotd


Do you deny that you have, effectively, conceded to having no explanation for this long-lasting "River in the Sky."

Answer the question you evasive . . .

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:26 pm



In order not to draw attention away from your inability to dispute/refute the subject manner that is on-topic in this thread, please take your off-topic chatter somewhere else.

Seaside, in the least you should address the topic you brought up midthread. Don't use your scientific beliefs as an excuse for evading revelation of your inability to dispute. Tell us your explanation of these rivers in the sky.

James McGinn / Solving tornadoes
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:44 pm

comingfrom wrote:In my model storms are created by discharges of ions from the ionosphere into the lower atmospheric regions, and tornadoes are winds generated by electric currents.

Have a nice day
Paul


Evidence?
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby seasmith » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:23 pm

~
jimmcginn wrote:
seasmith wrote:
Water- based Electrostatic Generator

Do you have a point?

When people post evidence then fail/refuse to explain its significance it is ALWAYS a tactic to draw attention away from something they deeply disagree with but cannot contradict/dispute.

Admit it Seaside. If what I am saying is wrong it should be brain-dead easy to find evidence that contradicts it. Undoubtedly you did research to dispute my position and failed. Frustrated, you found something that would obscure the issue.

Tell us how/why this is relevant or admit that it isn't, you evasive twit.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes


jimmcginn wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:25 pm
seasmith wrote:
jimmcginn wrote:

“But, no, I don't think electricity is involved as a source of the energy of storms or vortices.
...
It is important to note that without the H2O-based plasma that I mentioned above jet streams (and tornadoes) couldn't possibly exist ...”


So you have discovered a water-based plasma, that is non-electric ?


“ Right, and I address the specifics in Bill" -Mcginn




Here are two primary reasons to not take your weather theories seriously:


1. The rather silly assertion that you have discovered a non-electric water based plasma.


2. The time-wasting canard asking whether cloud water is a vapor or a gas.

Water is like gold, it can be spread one molecule thin, and so can take the form of an ideal surface Or an ideal particle.
In that light ask yourself, is one molecule of water a gas and two joined molecules a vapor ? Or does an aerosol consist of three joined water molecules, or maybe six, like graphene ?
The important takeaway is that the Electrical properties of water allow it to combine into many, many aggregate forms.

Try to get the primitive dogma out of your mind concerning the difference between covalent bonds, hydrogen bonds, shaky bonds, etc.; and Try to think simply in terms of Charge Flows.

with respect,
It’s not that hard jimmygingin


ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩåååååååååååå
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:25 pm

Here are two primary reasons to not take your weather theories seriously:
1. The rather silly assertion that you have discovered a non-electric water based plasma.

In contrast to what? Your electricity inspired imagination?

2. The time-wasting canard asking whether cloud water is a vapor or a gas.

Then why do you keep bringing it up?

Water is like gold, it can be spread one molecule thin, and so can take the form of an ideal surface Or an ideal particle.

Speculative nonsense. Your imagination isn't evidence.

In that light ask yourself, is one molecule of water a gas and two joined molecules a vapor ? Or does an aerosol consist of three joined water molecules, or maybe six, like graphene ?
The important takeaway is that the Electrical properties of water allow it to combine into many, many aggregate forms.

Vague. Speculartive. Irrelevant.

Try to get the primitive dogma out of your mind concerning the difference between covalent bonds, hydrogen bonds, shaky bonds, etc.; and Try to think simply in terms of Charge Flows.

You don't have an honest argument. You have a belief. Your belief, no matter how deep, does not add up to an excuse to ignore scientific methods, the standard rules of discourse, or common courtesy. I know it's frustrating to be so sure your are right and so completely unable to say how or why, but that doesn't add up to an excuse for bad behavior.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby Maol » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:01 pm

jimmcginn wrote:
Maol wrote:How do you purport the sublimation of H2O at -40 degrees?

This is a good question but it doesn't have a simple answer. It can be explained through my theory. Unfortunately I don't have time to answer this question for you. Sorry. Moreover, until you understood my theory my explanation would be indecipherable to you anyway. And so, if you read and study "Lookout for Bill" you may eventually be able to answer this question for yourself.

Here are some guidelines that might help:
First, understand what ice is and how/why ice crystals form and persist.
Secondly, understand why/how being below the surface tends to block factors that prevent or undo formation of ice crystals.
Lastly, understand how being on the surface these factors are not blocked.

More than anything else, you need to first understand that pendulumic aspect of liquid H2O that is associated with H2O's high heat capacity. This is thoroughly explicated in "lookout For Bill." Frankly, until you understand H2O's high heat capacity and the quantum mechanical factors that underlie it you won't really understand my theory. And until you understand my theory you won't be able to explain any of H2O's numerous anomalies, including sublimation.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes


Since it is so that you have no idea what anyone else knows or understands, and no matter if this is miss-attributed to Einstein, Rutherford or Feynman, it remains true, "If you can't explain something to a six-year-old, you really don't understand it yourself."

So give it your best shot and we'll try to keep up. Describe this one simple thing ... the physical process of H2O sublimation at -40 degrees. How do individual molecules of H2O detach from solid H2O at -40 ?
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:19 pm

Maol wrote:
jimmcginn wrote:
Maol wrote:How do you purport the sublimation of H2O at -40 degrees?

This is a good question but it doesn't have a simple answer. It can be explained through my theory. Unfortunately I don't have time to answer this question for you. Sorry. Moreover, until you understood my theory my explanation would be indecipherable to you anyway. And so, if you read and study "Lookout for Bill" you may eventually be able to answer this question for yourself.

Here are some guidelines that might help:
First, understand what ice is and how/why ice crystals form and persist.
Secondly, understand why/how being below the surface tends to block factors that prevent or undo formation of ice crystals.
Lastly, understand how being on the surface these factors are not blocked.

More than anything else, you need to first understand that pendulumic aspect of liquid H2O that is associated with H2O's high heat capacity. This is thoroughly explicated in "lookout For Bill." Frankly, until you understand H2O's high heat capacity and the quantum mechanical factors that underlie it you won't really understand my theory. And until you understand my theory you won't be able to explain any of H2O's numerous anomalies, including sublimation.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes


Since it is so that you have no idea what anyone else knows or understands, and no matter if this is miss-attributed to Einstein, Rutherford or Feynman, it remains true, "If you can't explain something to a six-year-old, you really don't understand it yourself."

So give it your best shot and we'll try to keep up. Describe this one simple thing ... the physical process of H2O sublimation at -40 degrees. How do individual molecules of H2O detach from solid H2O at -40 ?


If it is so simple you should describe it yourself.

Good luck.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:53 am

~
Monolayer water:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/258 ... -The-water

Chain of gold atoms:
https://phys.org/news/2017-02-breakthro ... atoms.html

Monolayer deposition:
https://www.google.com/search?q=atomic+ ... AiYQsAQIRw


It's common knowledge jimmy, please avail yourself.

:geek:
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:03 am

seasmith wrote:It's common knowledge jimmy, please avail yourself.

I don't know what your point is, but in the abstract of the first link I found the following: "We use molecular dynamics simulations to investigate the thermal properties of monolayer water, and find that its thermal conductivity is more similar to ice than to liquid water."

My hypothesis explains why we should expect the properties of along the surface of water to be more like those of ice. See the following for details:

A Revolutionary New Model of Water Structure
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16587

Bill -- Chapter One: Air Brakes (SToS [2 of 5])
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16582#p117061
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:11 pm

seasmith wrote:1. The rather silly assertion that you have discovered a non-electric water based plasma.

Maybe your're just <moderator edit> that can't deal with novelty. Did you ever consider that?

seasmith wrote:2. The time-wasting canard asking whether cloud water is a vapor or a gas.

Stop being a cry baby and admit that you can't dispute my assertion that moist air is heavier than dry air.

Put up or shut up.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
Last edited by nick c on Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ad hominem remark removed
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:13 pm

seasmith wrote:~
Monolayer water:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/258 ... -The-water

Chain of gold atoms:
https://phys.org/news/2017-02-breakthro ... atoms.html

Monolayer deposition:
https://www.google.com/search?q=atomic+ ... AiYQsAQIRw


It's common knowledge jimmy, please avail yourself.

:geek:


Relevance?

Keep in mind the internet doesn't provide us a link to your imagination.
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby flyingcloud » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:58 am

So give it your best shot and we'll try to keep up. Describe this one simple thing ... the physical process of H2O sublimation at -40 degrees. How do individual molecules of H2O detach from solid H2O at -40 ?


How about molecular photon absorption?
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby jimmcginn » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:06 am

Maol wrote:So give it your best shot and we'll try to keep up. Describe this one simple thing ... the physical process of H2O sublimation at -40 degrees. How do individual molecules of H2O detach from solid H2O at -40 ?


This question is based on a false premise. Evaporation/sublimation DO NOT involve the detachment of, "individual molecules of H2O." Evaporation/sublimation always involve microdroplets.

Remember the high boiling point of H2O. It is literally harder to pull of a single molecule of water from a surface than it is to pull a cluster/microdroplet. This is the result the polarity neutralizing characteristics of clusters of H2O. Only if polarity is neutralized by collective H bonds is the polarity of an H2O molecule low enough to be removed from a surface.

Water is very, very, very, counterintuitive. For more on this subject read this:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16582#p117063

The world is full of people that want to believe water is simple and it's just not. This belief insulates them from taking the time to get educated on water. I have made it easy for you (see the link above). But if you don't take the time to read it then you will forever wallow in the false belief that water is simple when the fact is that it just isn't. So stop being stubborn and get educated. Stop whining that water isn't what you wanted it to be and start studying.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:36 am

by jimmcginn » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:06 am
...
Evaporation/sublimation DO NOT involve the detachment of, "individual molecules of H2O." Evaporation/sublimation always involve microdroplets.


So do these "micro droplets" consist on two molecules, or maybe three molecules ?

Ok, now i'll shut up

:D ;
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Re: We all grow up believing that the moisture in clear air

Unread postby MerLynn » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:04 pm

jimmcginn wrote:
Stop being a cry baby and admit that you can't dispute my assertion that moist air is heavier than dry air.

Put up or shut up.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes



Jim..
Its been the way of Science for 1000's of years, a discovery is made (invention) and then the "scientists" try to Theorize the invention to fit into their view of the world.
It has worked well for destructive 'particle' science like H20.
But Creative Magnetic Science, the New kid on the block, turns this all on its head.

So Jim, what is relevant to this thread is new inventions that defy all that is known about the old theories INCLUDING the reproducing process.

Namely that the 'reproducers' in lab coats 'change' the out comes by being sick and having a diseased mind that needs to be corrected FIRST.

So your theory that moist air is heaver than dry air depends on the premise of what moist and air is. Or what Water and Air is.

I contend that all air is water with varying frequencies and these varying frequencies determine their "specific density or mass' which gives rise to their 'weight' or attractiveness to the earth. Gravity in your outdated lingo.

Given your outdated lingo, your theories are also outdated.

You have consistently ignored repeatable provable demonstrable experiments that prove air is water and newly manufactured moist air can be electromagnetically restructured into other plasma conglomerates your outdated science calls elements.

I again call you out on your crap theories in the name of ignoring new inventions that are so explosive to science that their existence must be only for those who seek the truth IN PERSON.

Your trying to 'redefine' what water is from the particle or marble construct is so over and obsolete you will get millions of hits on google to "water is not H20"

Why do you persist in these outdated atomic models when you can get off your arse and find out that inventions do exist that you can PERSONALLY see, rather than once again depend upon a 3rd parties heresay evaluation.
Jim you can have instant proof rather than wait for written proof.

Whats holding you back, Fear?
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