Best Arguments on Climate?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:04 pm

I've read the 'Arctic Homeland' book but didn't think much of it. The author seemed to be suggesting that these people lived in the Arctic and then left it once the ice had gone (thanks to Indra).
Not read the other book but I'd give it a go if I came across it.

Did a bit of reading on the Formorians. Black hair and skin? Interesting. I'd prefer to read the oiriginal myths rather than having to rely on the secondary and tertiary sources which weren't overly impresssive.
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The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:59 pm

I just listened to the Australian video and I agree it's pretty impressive. I previously heard the guy from New Mexico who was also in this video. In the former video, he showed in detail that the temperatures in the U.S. during the 1930s were much hotter than any time since. In this video they seem to say that Australia was much warmer in the late 1800s, then cooled until 1910 then warmed up slightly. One said the glaciers are both retreating and advancing about 50% each. The New Mexico guy said though that they're retreating more than advancing and that the retreat started at the end of the ice age about 20 thousand years ago when sea levels were at their lowest and that the retreat of glaciers and the rise of sea levels have continuously since then. He said this will continue until the next ice age.

I don't think there will be another ice age, because glaciation only occurred due to a one-time event, a global cataclysm, but at a more recent date, or actually two major events a few centuries apart, i.e. the flood due to asteroid impacts and tidally caused tsunamis and then another impact that broke up the supercontinent. The warming at the time of the Vikings and the cooling after that show that temperatures do change quite a bit over a few hundred years, but not enough to produce another ice age. Did you all see the link I posted about 2 weeks ago to a paper that finds that solar activity is lower than ever recorded since the early or mid 1800s? It says global cooling is returning maybe similar to the Maunder Minimum. I hope that's not what's coming. I'd prefer global warming.
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby dodeca » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:21 am

LIoyd what do you think is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUbr64eqt2w
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:38 pm

dodeca wrote:LIoyd what do you think is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUbr64eqt2w

Pretty interesting. The G cloud and other local features of the galaxy have been discussed a little on the Electric Universe board. The video seems to do a pretty good job of showing where we are in the various densities of clouds. It says we're starting to leave the local low-density cloud and enter a higher density region. It also says we're nearing a region of high magnetic field. Then it brings up a galactic superwave, which is I think a completely different topic. It says the wave may initiate an ice age. I don't think so. I think the ice age occurred because of asteroid bombardments somewhat over 4 thousand years ago. The video dates some event to over 16 thousand years ago, but that's very likely a misreading of the geologic column, which was laid down almost all at once, over a period of months, not over thousands or millions of years. While it's plausible that the increasing density of the interstellar medium where we're headed may increase solar and planetary activity, there's likely nothing to get alarmed about as yet. When we see an asteroid bombardment coming, that's when to get alarmed, IMO.
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby jtb » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:19 pm

About 2005 I toured the US Army Corps of Engineers supercomputer that monitored Global Warming, among many other things, I believe located in Huntsville Alabama. After the tour I caught the guide alone so he wouldn't have to give me a PC answer and asked what they have found so far. No evidence of global warming at that time.

What I learned selling fertilizer is that healthy organic soil emits copious amounts of CO2 and plants can only absorb inorganic minerals. Plants signal soil microbes their nutritional needs. The microbes digest organic material that contains those minerals and transport them to the plants. The plants trade carbon for the inorganic minerals. This is one of many other complex interactions that occur in the plant kingdom.
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:36 pm

Holy Cow !!
You mean carbon and CO2 are organic ?
Then how come the powers-that-be want to put a Global Tax on them ?
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby jtb » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:38 pm

Fossil Fuel !!! How do I love thee? Let me count the ways:

You Saved the Whales!!! by Replacing Whale Oil Lamps

You gave us more Trees to Hug!!! by replacing Wood Stoves

You gave us Mobility (Automobiles)!!!

You Eliminated Road Apples!!! Horse Poop, Urine, and Horse Flies in our Driveways

Let there be Light!!! You Fuel our Generators

You gave us Plastic!!! Light Weight Computer Tablets and Cell Phones
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby jtb » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:08 am

Met a logger from Fairbanks yesterday. Said because of the melting ice, Polar Bears are moving inland and mating with Brown Bears. Arctic region is warming, but Antarctica is cooling.

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpre ... ntarctica/
“This temperature history not only shows recent cooling, it also indicates that temperatures are now lower than the early 19thC. There are too many other studies to quote, which all come to similar conclusions, but they can be well summed up by this conclusion from Monaghan & Bromwich (2008): “Overall there have not been statistically significant Antarctic near-surface temperature trends since the International Geophysical Year" of 1957-58”
Conclusion
In conclusion, and in light of the many findings of the diverse studies cited above, it is clear that the temperature history of Antarctica provides no evidence for the CO2-induced global warming hypothesis. In fact, it argues strongly against it.”
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby dodeca » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:23 am

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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby dodeca » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:01 am

Tony Heller testify before Washington State Senate Committee
http://www.tvw.org/watch/?eventID=2017021106
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:33 am

More good finds, thanks.
I still think more needs to be done to separate AGW from climate change.
Re that wad of peer-reviewed papers that senator plonked on the table. It would be easy to provide a similar sized wad of peer-reviewed papers advocating the 'coming ice-age' and the same could be done with papers from the humanities blaming climate change for various destructions and migrations throughout recorded history.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby sketch1946 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:58 am

My take on human accelerated global warming is that it's a bit too political... good science and good management would suggest that we should plan for **whatever happens with the weather, either hotter or cooler, and along the way do some thinking about how to detect and deal with the next comet impact, at least plan for dealing with warnings, evacuation strategies, keep up an intelligent discussion about the historical evidence without doing the PC 'We can't say that comets might hit the earth 'cos people will get panicky...'

Mankind should definitely try to live sustainably, this is the planet we have, and life is too beautiful and precious to be going around tipping rubbish into the sea and poisoning our farmlands in order to grow more food than we need and then try to sell to people who can't afford to buy it, millions can't even get a drink of clean water.. some more good science and enlightened management needed IMHO :-)

Not too many years ago I was pooh-pooed and smugly brushed off for believing that asteroid or comet impacts are ***REAL*** Now there's a tendency to pretend that there's not really that many impacts, they're all volcanoes! They all happened MILLIONS of years ago... and 'anyway comet impacts are not likely to happen in the next 100 years' and other such unscientific paternalistic comments

I found out about the younger Dryas, Burckle, two impacts in the Gulf of Carpentaria 1500 years ago, Mahuika 500 years ago, Tunguska 110 years ago... and now 3 years ago, an airborne bolide explosion above the city of Chelyabinsk

"The airburst produced a shockwave powerful enough to knock people in its path off their feet. In Chelyabinsk itself, more than 3,600 apartment buildings had shattered windows , and the event sent more than 1,200 people in the region to hospitals that day. All in all, the shockwave caused damage to areas about 55 miles (90 kilometers) on either side of the meteor's path."

"If humanity does not want to go the way of the dinosaurs, we need to study an event like this in detail," Qing-Zhu Yin at the University of California, Davis, a study co-author of a paper on the Chelyabinsk event detailed online Nov. 7 [2013]in the journal Science, said in a statement.

"The scientists estimate the total energy of the event was equivalent to an explosion of about 500 kilotons of TNT. In comparison, the atomic bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki each had the explosive power of only about 16 kilotons of TNT."

The last one over Chelyabinsk was the size of a coffee table.... whereas Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 that slammed into Jupiter in 1994 was maybe a mile wide (1.4 km in diameter) and had a combined impact energy of 300 ***GIGA**tons
you wouldn't be worrying about global warming if something like *that impacted our planet....
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby Justatruthseeker » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:02 pm

Humans have had nothing to do with global warming. If you look at the Arctic ice core data the earth goes through a warming spell every 125,000 years roughly. This one started about 25,000 years ago.

Yes, there has been global warming, it started 25,000 years ago. But if one looks at the data what occurs after every rise is a dramatic fall in temperatures.

http://www.grida.no/publications/vg/cli ... /3057.aspx

Besides the NOAA may have been cooking the data


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... -data.html
Fabricated Ad-hoc Inventions Repeatedly Invoked in Effort to Defend Untennable Scientific Theory - Fairie Dust

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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby sketch1946 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:54 pm

Although my post about cosmic impacts seems off topic, cosmic impact could explain how global cooling could occur from unrecorded events, after such non-anthropogenic events, the earth would slowly warm again, until the next impact....

"A giant meteorite that broke in two as it crashed off Australia, could have been responsible for a ***mini-ice age*** that engulfed Britain in 535AD."

"In the mid-sixth century, Europe and Asia experienced the most severe and protracted episode of cooling of the last 2,000 years."

"Sources from the time (sorry Fomenko :-) ) refer to widespread crop failures and famines as the unseasonal weather took hold. The Gaelic Irish Annals recorded 'a failure of bread' from 536 to 539AD."

"Tree ring analysis by Mike Baillie from Queen's University in Belfast also suggested a cool period. He found the Irish oak showed abnormally little growth in 536 and 542. This phenomenon was noted in trees in Sweden and Finland as well."

The two proposed impact craters are near Mornington Island right at the bottom of the Gulf of Carpentaria, one is about 18km wide and the other 12km wide, and only a few hundred km west of where I live, and only 1500 years ago... getting a bit too close for me... :-)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... e-age.html
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Re: Best Arguments on Climate?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:34 am

IUPUI study: Climate change drove population decline in New World before Europeans arrived
http://science.iupui.edu/news/iupui-stu ... ns-arrived
So much for the LIA being airbrushed out of the picture.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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