Catastrophism Conference Online Sat. & Wed.

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Catastrophism Conference Online Sat. & Wed.

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:33 pm

You are invited to Etherpad conferences on Catastrophism at
https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/U0QsftuJQO
DATES & TIMES FOR DISCUSSIONS:
Sat, Nov 28 & Wed, Dec 2
4 Sessions each day 6 hours apart (That should give everyone a chance to attend at least one session.)
-- Session: _#1; _#2; _#3; _#4
Pacific---- 8am; 2pm; 8pm; 2am
Central-- 10am; 4pm; 10pm; 4am
Eastern- 11am; 5pm; 11pm; 5am
GMT---- 1600; 2200; 0400; 1000
EastOz---0200; 0800; 1400; 2000
(I expect to be there for Sessions 1, 2 & 3 on both Sat. & Wed.)
Feel free to request other days or times.

I'll post the transcripts here.
Please watch the 15 minute Shock Dynamics Video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IIE8UnvPUg and discuss it there, if you like.
Or discuss any catastrophist theory you prefer there.
You may leave messages there in advance, if you like. Here is okay too.

By the way, 18 members have already expressed interest in attending these conferences. Anyone who doesn't want to say anything in the conference document can still ask questions or make comments in the Chat box there. Or you can just read what people are writing. Several people can write in the document at the same time. And they can edit what they write too. So it's very good for collaboration.
Lloyd
 
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Re: Catastrophism Conference Online Sat. & Wed.

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:52 pm

Reminder re previous message.
Lloyd
 
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Re: Catastrophism Conference Online Sat. & Wed.

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:21 pm

Sat. Session 1 Transcript

F.: Hi Lloyd, I'm testing this chat, I have a side question.
I'm not sure which topic this falls under, but T. Holden has the idea of plasma columms redistributing earth surfaces material to other areas, he used permafrost material as his prime example. Is this considered a useful component even in the great flood senario?
[See the bottom of this message.]
LK: Hello F.. The plasma column could be discussed under Topic 1 later.
F.: sweet. thnaks
LK: Cardona says there was tornadic activity in the far north which produced the thick layer of frozen muck. We could discuss that.
F.: is it discussed on the Thunderbolts forum?
LK: A little under the Cardona Interview thread. I could look for other occurrences of that discussion. Eventually.
F.: No its ok, you have plenty on your plate. Its been a few years sene I looked through it but will again.
LK: Did you look at the Shock Dynamics video yet?
F.: yes and some follow up discussion on the forum. its interesting . watched it several times. Was trying to find CC s discussion on superfluids
LK: I'll put a link in the document. F., here's a link for supercritical on Charles' site: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=site:http:%2F%2Fqdl.scs-inc.us%2F+supercritical
F.: thanks
this one: http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=4741-4752-5653-5660-6031-6199-15407 reading now. thanks
oops.. I see the updated links.
LK: Hey, F., do you want to discuss Catastrophism?
F.: so uninformed at this point, just a fly on the wall. but love this format.
LK: Did you already read on the supercritical fluid material?
F.: can't find it at CC' site. only some on earth expansion.
LK: What did you want to know? I mean about supercritical fluids?
F.: basic principes ... principles
LK: Charles got his info from Aspden and Robitaille, I think.
F.: ok will search it. thanks
LK: You can search for those on his site, which I think the link I gave you already covers.
Here's Aspden: qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/8315.html
F.: thanks
LK: Here's Robitaille: http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/12210.html
F., I'll be back in a few hours for the next scheduled Session, but I'll check back in a few minutes first.
F.: thanks Lloyd for the invite
LK: Do you have any questions or comments about the plasma column, or the tornado of the north?
LK: I quoted Cardona's book about Arctic muck at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3824&start=30#p46661

LK: Hi MA. F. asked about discussing the plasma column, which I think could be discussed under Topic #1 later, but the tornadic activity in the far north that produced the Arctic muck could be discussed, since the muck seems to have been produced during the Asteroid Bombardment, because mammoth tusks and bones sometimes contain micrometeor fragments. Since the mammoths were apparently flash frozen to minus 150 degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature necessary to freeze a mammoth completely before bacteria inside could cause decay, something must have caused a huge temperature drop near the onset of the Bombardment.
MA: I am outside the box here. I don't know of an asteroid bombardment at ca 4300 yrs ago. -I was under the impression that the favored theory for the catastrophe at that time was an eruption of Krakatoa.
LK: Dating methods are largely unreliable, I think, and there were likely eruptions all over the globe during the Asteroid Bombardment, esp. because one of the main impacts apparently split the supercontinent apart and caused rapid continental drift, which also caused vulcanism.
MA: So you're referring to Panagea's split about four hundred million yrs ago?
LK: Yes, but it was 4,350 years ago.
MA: Egyptian sources date the 4350 yrs ago event accurately date-wise, due to their records extending back that far.
LK: Do you have a reference for that?
MA: I don't have the reference. -The narrator who I saw on a tv documentary related details such as people eating their babies and the like, an unprecedented catastrophe.
LK: Do you know the name of the documentary?
MA: I don't have it.
LK: Would you be able to find it from tv listings etc?
MA: The documentary was aired on cable tv about two or three years ago. I havern't seen it on any re runs. -Correction: the Krakatoa event was at ca 500AD. But the Egyptian event was at 2300 BC.-It was worldwide, but the Egyptian chronicles contain a lot of detail , as I mentioned. (The 500 AD event made the Dark ages even darker.
LK: That's interesting about the Dark Ages eruption. I'd heard that a lot of little cataclysms in the Roman Empire caused by meteors, comets etc helped end the empire. That may have been Clube and Napier who mentioned that.
Have you checked out the Shock Dynamics video?
MA: I use a set of codes enciphered in a Historical Document. They say that the 4350 catastrophe was due to a shift of earth's orbit. That's why it was so violent in Egypt for example. -I believe that the Flood event a couple thousand years bafore that had produced a polar shift, and there occurred a "correction" which in turn disturbed t earth's orbit. -This is my independent working out of a 4350 yrs ago catastrophe.
LK: Jonathan Gray mentioned a 1950s science article that found that Earth suffered an impact about that time that caused a change in the axis tilt to 26 degrees. It may have been the same impact that caused continental drift and the global flood.
What is your favored sequence of events regarding the cataclysm, esp. the Great Flood? Is it somewhat similar to mine as described below under "Catastrophism Discussion", i.e. Topics 1-7?
MA: In using this encoded source, I obtain very different ideas about catastrophes than using objective evidence. -The Flood was related to alien technological factors anbd not something I can relate to observable evidence alone.
LK: Are you referring to Sitchin's ideas?
MA: The codes I work with were discovered by a cryptographer years ago whose work is little known. -I found the deciphered material to pertain to paranormaal explanations of many scientific areas.
LK: Sounds similar to Michael Drosnin's Bible Codes claims.
MA: I think my code messages have more detail and clarity than theirs. -You could check my Thread at Thunderbolts Forum, under "Origin, an Alternative to the Big Bang."
LK: Okay. I'll check after a while. Have you seen the Shock Dynamics video?
MA: No, I haven't seen that (To look into my Thread on Origin, you first go to Thunderbolts Forum, then to "New Insights and mad ideas," then see my Thread "Origins." It presents a model using the Yin and Yang depiction to account for how space could have transitioned to a universal ether. (The elemental units combining to a pair then reversibly re equilibrated to singleton elemental units, which is how the symmetry of space broke.)
LK: I'll find it. The video is discussed below under Topic #3.
I'm thinking of inviting people to a conference on physics and astronomy etc later on. Would that interest you for discussing your model there?
MA: Yes
LK: I have an Etherpad document set up for it, but I'm not ready for it yet. It'll probably be a couple weeks or more.
Do you have time to see the Shock Dynamics video? It's 15 minutes long. The link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IIE8UnvPUg
MA: What is there about it of special interest?
LK: It shows that continental drift occurred rapidly from an asteroid impact. It shows how the continents split apart from the supercontinent.
MA: But drift is still occurring at a few inches per year.
LK: That's just the tidal forces etc still occurring. Charles Chandler has explained how it keeps moving. The tides are caused by electrical forces.
MA: I'm on another page, in that I am committed to my encoded source. -It ascribes drift to the separation of the moon from the Pacific Basin caused by a brush with a huge cosmic body . This is said to have occurred hundreds of millions of years ago.
LK: The Shock Dynamics video shows that an encounter with the Moon caused similar effects and formed the Supercontinent and the East Pacific Rise in the seafloor etc. The timing is flexible on that, but it appears to me to be much more recent, in the thousands or tens of thousands of years, according to Saturn theory findings mainly.
MA: The earth is rounding itself off after the loss of the huge moon mass.
LK: Do you have time to see the video? You could mention if you see any problems with it.
MA: I'd like toi join the group, but maybe my unconventional information source means I'm not able to get with alternative models that are very different from mine.
LK: Can't tell how different they are till you show a timeline to compare with and a sequence of events. Even if the timelines are different, we may be able to inform each other usefully.
MA: I have the same problem with my theory of the ether confronting quantum mechanics and relativity. It's me versus consensus, a difficult task.
LK: Here's the Etherpad for the physics/astronomy conference: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/nFHIv2wlUi. It's not set up yet, but that's where I'm planning to hold it.
MA: I'd be interested to hear about it when it is ready.
LK: Actually, I'm using it (the other Etherpad) as a backup for this Etherpad, in case this document freezes up or anything, but I'll remove that when this conference is over.
MA, will you be able to join the discussion in later Sessions today or Wednesday?
MA: I would be more interested in the astrophysics because my theories on catastrophism are more difficult to confront consensus earth evidence.
LK: Aren't you interested in evidence from fossils, rock strata, frozen muck and mammoths, craters, etc?
MA: The standard interpretations of "evidence" in turn depend on various hypotheses about earth and forces bearing on earth which are basically different. -My source gives a different basis for earth's magnetic field, and branching hypotheses begin to diverge too greatly.
LK: What does your source say about the rock strata, fossils etc?
MA: That's a broad question. -For the Grand canyon, for example, the mechanism was first, the Colo. River, then water seeping downwards, then deep heat vectoring upward from below the crust causing "bubbling" of the water along the course of the river, which undermined the ground producing a chasmic path
LK: Did you know about the two large lakes that were drained by the Grand Canyon?
MA: My informational source tells of ancient cataclysms which produced full-thickness crustal rifts, some of which persist to this day, for example the Yellowstone geysers with heat buildup from patent rifts and a lake under that portion of the ground. -Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision tells of folk descriptions from ancient times of eruptions of unimaginable extent.
LK: Volcanic eruptions? Or geysers?
MA: The ancient cataclysm involved magnetic forces exerted by a cometary planet size body brushing earth, with magnetic forces so violent it produced full thickness rifts of the earth's crust. -Evidence exists of venus being totally anomalous in its planetary history - its spin is opposite of all the other planets, its surface is uniquely pock marked with active craters. -People dismissed Velikovsky's model just because his chronology for the event was proved wrong, so they threw out his whole model and the voluminous folk legends and other evidence.
LK: We haven't thrown away his info. Do you agree with any of the sequence of 7 events that I list below?
MA: It's a brief sketch outline. I can't say whether I agree without going into more detail.
LK: Are you ready to discuss #2, 3 or 4? Or some other?
MA: Bombardment gets into extraterrestrail theory, that otherworldly entities keep the cosmos in balance by invoking unusual movements of celestial objects. -Again, how can I confront consensus with such basic diverging models?
Drift, we discussed above, likewise, Great Flood.
LK: Which consensus are you meaning?
MA: Basing theories of earth's ancient past on objectifiable evidence, using a different scientific basis, of earth magnetism, cosmic events that occur completely randomly, and the like. If the cosmos is being managed to keep it in balance, the consensus that it's random creates a great divergence in models of earth's past.
LK: I'm not trying to prevent consideration of nonrandom causality. I think most of us would probably be willing to consider that. Some believe the Bible is inerrant and that God causes everything for a reason.
MA: Intelligent creational design began after the origin from space, then intense etherically super refined energic loci were involved but then these loci were brittle, so god entitiy created our universe to provide a stable macrocosm that was magnetically stable.
LK: Is that what your forum thread discusses?
MA: Basically I avoid that and try to stay with scientific theory of how an ether arose, how it explains quantum entanglement and the like.
LK: I don't think you'd need to avoid mentioning intelligent design or anything like that.
MA: I think the scientific part can confront mainstream consensus but that bringing in E.T. would make my task harder to argue.
LK: I meant on the TB forum, mentioning intelligent design shouldn't be a problem.
MA: I am having enough of a task staying with the scientific theoretic part without "tryin to branch out." Of course, we can all stay in our little group discussions and be open to less demonstrable topics like creation and cosmic ETs, but it's too difficult confronting authoritative experts in those areas.
LK: I call them authoritarian, not authoritative.

Regarding the Destructive Tornado in the Polar Column
From http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6629#p69714
Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago
Postby Lloyd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:12 pm
* The Saturn System broke up somewhere near Jupiter and the asteroid belts. When Earth left the warmth of Saturn's tail and the polar column, I suppose it took a few decades to reach its present orbit. The move from near Jupiter or Mars to the present orbit would have been very cold, producing an ice age. I suppose the lower latitudes would have been the only places warm enough for most people and animals during that time.
* The plasma column held a lot of ocean water from Earth, so, when it was severed, a Great Flood occurred when the column let go of some of the water.
* The column also had very strong tornadoes during the Golden Age which chewed up the ground in the Arctic. The Arctic was warm during the Golden Age and there was abundant plant and animal life. But the tornadoes were a bit erratic and gobbled up plants and animals as well as dirt near the pole. Electrical forces pulverized the matter into organic powder. When the column was severed, after the flood waters were let go, tornadoes mixed the powder with broken plants and animals and ice pellets to make frozen muck, covering much of the Arctic circle. Loess is pulverized rock, which also covers much of the area.
* The area around the Arctic Ocean must have been hit by a blast of very cold air from the upper atmosphere, when plasma column severed, because large animals and even bodies of water froze almost instantly. In order for mammoths to freeze solid without their cells bursting, they had to be flash frozen, which would have required temperatures below -175F. I'll try to post some relevant data soon.

From http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3824&start=30#p46661
Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory
Postby Lloyd » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:24 pm
More from God Star
* Here are more of my notes on most interesting statements in God Star with page numbers at front and some of my questions. Dwardu has been too busy to answer me lately, it seems.
254 Christopher Columbus said in 1500 that the Earth has a bulge.
LLOYD: Did he say it was at the pole? Where did he get the idea?
255 Arctic muck covers one seventh of Earth's land surface.
LLOYD: I guess that's about 10 million square miles, mostly in Siberia, Canada, Alaska and maybe Greenland and northern Scandinavia?
256 The muck is over 4000 feet deep in places.
LLOYD: Can't radar or sonar determine the exact depths? Did the muck come from proto-Saturn's flare-up detritus or from the Polar Column?
Lloyd
 
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Re: Catastrophism Conference Online Sat. & Wed.

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:20 pm

You are still invited to Etherpad conferences on Catastrophism at
https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/U0QsftuJQO
DATES & TIMES FOR DISCUSSIONS:
Sat, Nov 28 & Wed, Dec 2
4 Sessions each day 6 hours apart (That should give everyone a chance to attend at least one session.)
-- Session: _#1; _#2; _#3; _#4
Pacific---- 8am; 2pm; 8pm; 2am
Central-- 10am; 4pm; 10pm; 4am
Eastern- 11am; 5pm; 11pm; 5am
GMT---- 1600; 2200; 0400; 1000
EastOz---0200; 0800; 1400; 2000

Second Session for today is coming up shortly.
Transcript for First Session is posted above.
Lloyd
 
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Re: Catastrophism Conference Online Sat. & Wed.

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:11 pm

The Saturday Catastrophism Conference went poorly. Only 2 people attended the first session and they didn't have much to say about catastrophism. I think I'll change the format for the Wednesday sessions.
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Re: Catastrophism Conference Online Sat. & Wed.

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:12 pm

The Saturday Catastrophism Conference went poorly. Only 2 people attended the first session and they didn't have much to say about catastrophism. I think I'll change the format for the Wednesday sessions.

Suggestions are welcome too.
Lloyd
 
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Re: Catastrophism Conference Online Wed.

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:21 pm

I previously suggested viewing the 15 minute Shock Dynamics video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IIE8UnvPUg before the online conference.
Now I suggest also reading "Noah’s Flood: The Key to Correct Interpretation of Earth History" at https://www.socalsem.edu/2015/08/09/noahs-flood-the-key-to-correct-interpretation-of-earth-history/ before the conference.
This scientific paper explains a lot of events associated with the Great Flood. It suggests that tidal pulses 2,500 m high could have produced the sedimentary strata. It doesn't say what could have caused such pulses, but I gather it would have had to be the close approach of the Moon or other planetoid.

Here's the link to the conference: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/U0QsftuJQO
Here are the times of the sessions:
Wed-Thu, Dec 2-3
4 Sessions 6 hours apart
-- Session: _#1; _#2; _#3; _#4
Pacific---- 8am; 2pm; 8pm; 2am
Central-- 10am; 4pm; 10pm; 4am
Eastern- 11am; 5pm; 11pm; 5am
GMT---- 1600; 2200; 0400; 1000
EastOz---0200; 0800; 1400; 2000
Lloyd
 
Posts: 4184
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:54 pm


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