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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Most Thorough Model

Most Thorough Model

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:37 pm

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of the day sitting in a small boat, drinking beer and telling dirty jokes.



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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Aardwolf » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:53 pm

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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Aardwolf » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:13 pm

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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:45 pm

How about discussing expansion on the Expanding Earth thread? Hasn't it been talked to death yet? Yes, it has.
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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:07 pm

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of the day sitting in a small boat, drinking beer and telling dirty jokes.



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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:35 am

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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:56 am

In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:27 pm

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of the day sitting in a small boat, drinking beer and telling dirty jokes.



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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:09 pm

In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:52 pm

Read Shock Dynamics
Gary, have you ever read Fischer's site, ? I've been discussing it for a few years now, starting with Breakthrough on How Continents Divided.

Superficial Resemblances
You say Charles sounds like the mainstream. That shows how superficially you read his stuff. We don't accept subduction, nor does Fischer. The idea that the Moho layer is a nearly frictionless plasma was first mentioned by a Velikovskian catastrophist, Peter James, of SIS Review, as far as I know. So it's compatible with EU theory. Cardona accepts that model and agrees that the continents slid over the Moho layer. But he got fooled by the magnetic striping on the seafloors and thinks that periodic Saturn flares are what caused the continents to move apart relatively gradually.

Supercontinent
Cardona correctly agrees that the continents across the Atlantic were once joined together as is shown by similar rock strata and fossils etc on both coasts. That disproves Wal Thornhill's hypothesis of ED having carved out the Atlantic.

Expansion Disproof
I've covered this earlier, but the East Pacific Rise disproves expansion. Expansion would have left the Rise in the middle of the Pacific, instead of near South America and under much of North America. (Some expansion may have occurred, such as via Earth changing shape, or a large impactor penetrating deep into the Earth, but it's likely to have been very limited. Cardona thinks Earth expanded by receiving detritus periodically from Saturn.)

Impact Proof
Fischer's Shock Dynamics model explains that the Americas broke off of the supercontinent and slid on the Moho layer and then partly over the pre-existing (from an earlier impact) East Pacific Rise, which built up the Rockies and the higher terrain of the West. Fischer doesn't say it, but the great flood likely occurred when the continents moved rapidly apart. The Americas, Australia and part of Antarctica moved the farthest and likely flooded the most. Africa and Eurasia moved the least, except for India. By the way, I agree now that most of what is considered effects of glaciation actually seems to be evidence of the great flood. Fischer's site has abundant proof of an impact as the cause of the splitting of the continents.

EM Forces
In Charles' model, the powerful EM forces are what collapsed the solar system's Giant Molecular Cloud electrically into the Sun, planets and debris, the Sun and planets being held together by electric double layers, which release or re-store energy at the DL boundaries due to electrical tidal forces between solar system bodies.
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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:12 pm

CMEs
Charles, did you see this video of the big 2012 CME?

MattEU posted the link on the EU board. It shows 3 small CMEs occurred right before the big one. It has a lot of detail, so maybe it can help to understand them. The small ones made thin bright outlines in small areas on the solar surface as they ejected, then the big one made a thin bright expanding outline almost all the way around the Sun as it ejected. Do you think you understand them well enough yet to understand how the outline would go nearly all the way around the Sun? I presume that the brightness is due to charge recombination.
Last edited by Lloyd on Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:50 pm

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of the day sitting in a small boat, drinking beer and telling dirty jokes.



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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:11 am

Oops, I added this to my last post, but since you replied already, I'm making it a separate post.

Moho Layer
Here's CC's paper on the Moho: .
Charles, Wikipedia says "The Moho is characterized by a transition zone of up to 500 m thick.[6] Ancient Moho zones are exposed above-ground in numerous ophiolites around the world." Do you agree that the thickness is about 500 m? And what about the ancient Moho zones with ophiolites? If those are really ancient Moho zones, they should tell you what the present Moho layer is likely to consist of. Don't you think? Or could it vary? I'm looking to see if you mention in the paper what chemical/s the Moho consists of.
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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:32 am

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of the day sitting in a small boat, drinking beer and telling dirty jokes.



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Re: Most Thorough Model

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:48 am

Moho and Basalt Layers

I suppose the mainstream idea that ophiolites show former Moho zones is likely based on faulty reasoning from their model, since they likely have a wrong idea of what the Moho layer is.

The illustration in Figure 1 in your Moho paper led me to wonder if there is basalt under the granite continents. Do you think that's likely? Since the seafloors are mainly basalt, it seems likely that the entire Earth's surface or subsurface was basalt before the lunar impact produced the supercontinent. I suppose the basalt in the central area of the impact under the supercontinent was likely transformed chemically by the impact, but I'm guessing that most of the rest of the basalt under the supercontinent would have remained intact. Right?
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