Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:09 pm

Earthquake lights linked to rift environments, subvertical faults
Image
Rare earthquake lights are more likely to occur on or near rift environments, where subvertical faults allow stress-induced electrical currents to flow rapidly to the surface, according to a new study published in the Jan./Feb. issue of Seismological Research Letters.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-01-earthquake ... l.html#jCp
Does this raise then the question of which came first, the physical or electrical event? Could strong enough repulsion cause the mechanical forces, and even explain the rapid gold formation in the faults, or recrystalisation of rock? Or maybe a positive feedback type event where mechanical stress causes a charge accumulation that increases the mechanical stress, producing even more repulsive force? The repulsive forces can be quite powerful.
Image
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... lefor.html
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:53 am

In a cave in Wales, this image shows evidence of plasma sculpting. The sharply defined flutes look the same as features I have found in river and creek beds. Some hot, corrosive fluid, or turbulence, or was it rock eating microbes?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/ ... 64x773.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... uence.html
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:45 pm

Image


They are generally called "solution cavities" or pockets, said to form when acidic vapors (like sulfer
dioxide or nitrous oxide) are released from warm cave water, causing dissolution of the carbonate material around the trapped bubble(s).
Similar basement cavities, from draining liquids, would be "solution dolines".

http://www.caves.org/search.shtml

http://www.speleogenesis.info/directory ... erm=pocket

http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/Journa ... ume_74.htm

http://www.bees.unsw.edu.au/reza-keshavarzi
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:16 pm

said to form when acidic vapors


Acidic vapors, ah yes, they concentrate in very localised areas and erode deep into the rock and leave what appear to be 2 counter-rotating vortices at the base. Makes sense. To geologists anyway. Sorry S, just being sarcastic. But looking at the models for cave formation, I think I'm going to have to suggest that the original pathways were from electrical/plasma processes, and that any fluid modification came later. I've only had a quick look so far, but already I see features very similar to those found in some river and creek beds, and i know they were from EM processes.
I'm begining now to wonder about a model where in times of great electrical disturbances that the potential difference between the surface and lower layers becomes sufficient to cause huge current flows, and that both the caves and rivers may have formed at the same time. Maybe that's why I am in the mad ideas section though. ;-)
Heres just one image showing more sharply defined fluting of the rock (mid right), something that erosion by whatever means should not be able to do, the features should all be rounded and smoothed off. IMO.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1336118/thumb ... -570.jpg?2
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:54 pm

I think I'm going to have to suggest that the original pathways were from electrical/plasma processes, and that any fluid modification came later.
-GaryN


Yes.
In fact i think that "great electrical disturbances" might well have caused the Initial explosive separation of sedimentary layers (most caves are in some type of 'limestones'), to form the transverse/lateral faults
that allow the ingress of liquids and hollowing out a cave (most all caves do or have transported liquids).
So i think we are on the same chapter concerning speleologic origins.

As to "counter-rotating vortices", drain up or drain down, there will be rotation and any acid in solution is a Battery.

As mentioned previously, in times of great upheaval, through which Earth has been aplenty, there is great incidence of volcanism and hence long periods of Very acidic rains, not to mention the sulfurous excretions mentioned in that little Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth thread ...

You know i'm just playing angel's advocate, right ?
:twisted:
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:41 am

You know i'm just playing angel's advocate, right ?


Well I'd say you were an angel posting that image. I'll draw some lines on it to show where the plasma flow was most concentrated. The fine cracks in the rock are also a sign of the electrical forces, and I have seen the same inclusions or patches of different material, as can be seen at lower right of the image, in the V of some of the heart shaped pebbles I have collected. I think I still have one, or at least an image, will look for it.

(most all caves do or have transported liquids)


Yes but did water have anything to do with their creation? Sure water will run down a hole in the ground and find its way as deep as it can, but how some of those big caves in particular got that way does not, from my perspective, make any mechanical sense. Do I make sense, sometimes anyway? :D
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:03 pm

Looking at some cave images, I see many similarities in some of the shapes and formations to those I have noted in the river and creek beds in my local area. The river and creek shaping was through the mechanisms of glaciation, with subsequent water/particle erosion and weathering. Therefore I propose that the caves showing similar physical features must have also been produced through glaciation. I think I should become quite famous for this revolutionary geological model, yes, subterranean glaciers! :?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:30 pm

MattEU comments in this post about the Ghar Dalam Cave in Malta:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=363&start=165#p29551
Also the cave has layers of pebbles, which is strange again on a limestone island. It all smells of EU to me.


Pebbles in a cave. Damn straight it smells of EU. The evidence is everywhere of very energetic electrical and plasma forces at work. How have geologists gotten away with their misinterpretations so long, when nearly all of their models have no basis in reality from a demonstrable mechanical perspective. This pdf gives the most incredible theory for the caves formation, millions of years again of course, and the amazing ability of erosion to occur rapidly in places where the model requires it, and hardly at all in other places.

G˙ar Dalam - Heritage Malta (pdf)
http://heritagemalta.org/wp-content/upl ... -dalam.pdf
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:06 am



Glaciers ? We don't need no stinkin in glaciers


Fastest Mountain Erosion on Record



http://news.sciencemag.org/climate/2014/01/scienceshot-fastest-mountain-erosion-record
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:28 pm

From the link:
Wind, rain, and a variety of natural chemical processes are breaking down rock into 2.5 millimeters of soil each year.


And what about the vertical electric field gradient in a steep location, then there must be natural electro-chemical action occurring, maybe that speeds up soil creation? That image at the linked site does show a good demonstration though of what I have termed "fringe" rocks. Those chunks at the left side, I find very often on the river and creek beds on Vancouver Island, and some are still perched at the top, up the sides of the river/creek, and sometimes there are a few in a row, easy to see that they were once all connected, and just haven't slid down into the river. If they had been plucked out by a glacier, they wouldn't still be where they are. And some of them have been modified, rounded off, but not from tumbling. The rocks within the creek, IMO, have never moved either, except for the smaller ones which will form the pebble beds somewhere further downstream. And in those pebble beds are lots of pebbles that are of a composition which is not found in the rock along the river, they have undergone metamorphosis. No, we don't need no stinkin' glaciers, but they'll keep selling them to us anyway.
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:36 pm

That image at the linked site does show a good demonstration though of what I have termed "fringe" rocks. Those chunks at the left side, I find very often on the river and creek beds on Vancouver Island, and some are still perched at the top, up the sides of the river/creek, and sometimes there are a few in a row, easy to see that they were once all connected, and just haven't slid down into the river. If they had been plucked out by a glacier, they wouldn't still be where they are. And some of them have been modified, rounded off, but not from tumbling. The rocks within the creek, IMO, have never moved {?? ever seen a rockslide?] either, except for the smaller ones which will form the pebble beds somewhere f


Many streams in old mountains like Appalachian or Ozark cross a number of older streams, you can easily trace the gravel trains away in either direction.


Not actually having been there, to get some picture of the electro-chemo-geo-logic epochs that have transpired there since it was all silica crust or shallow seas whatever, wouldn't one need compositions, as well as sizes. Just differents not enough, is it ? What about your creek ? What minerals? What Rocks ?
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:52 pm

{?? ever seen a rockslide?]


Yes, but not in a river or creek. We have land/rock slides often along the west coast here, often when we get monsoon-like rains, it's an ongoing problem with what they call "rotten rock". It is all in flat faced chunks and pieces that seem to have been shattered but remain in place, the layer is like a 3d jigsaw puzzle with all the pieces fitting together, but all separate, and when enough water gets into the cracks, which have a fine dust between the pieces, it can turn to a paste than allows for it all to slump off. So to my way of thinking, this rotten rock has been shattered by huge discharges, but has not been removed, and sits just waiting for the proper conditions to peel off.
Image

In a river or creek, a log jam or beaver dam burst will scour out material close to the burst, down to bedrock, but then there will be a hump of rocks with a steep upstram face and a gradually tapering off level of rocks behind it, and only the fines actually go further downstream. Don't see many of those around here though, and those I have identified have been in low river slope locations.


What about your creek ? What minerals? What Rocks ?


Well I'm not a petrologist, but it is the diversity of the colours, textures, inclusions, patterns of the pebbles in the river beds that is puzzling. I have found small sections, very localised, of river bed where all the pebbles seem to be of a similar material, but other areas where every one is different. How could that be if there were any downstream movement? I think if you go to any pebble rich area, ocean front too, and look at the pebbles, you will see types of rock that I don't think exist as outcrops or strata or veins anywhere at all, so they couldn't have been broken off some remote source and rounded off by tumbling or other erosive forces.
And in deeper parts of the river beds, although the area outside of the river is all of a very consistent grainy grey basalt, small sections can also show the diversity of materials found in the pebbles, but it is only skin deep. It has undergone metamorphosis in a very loacalised manner, which IMO can only be due to very high energy events within the immediate region of the river/creek, a discharge path. And it is exactly the same in creeks that enter the river, and the smaller creeks running (at 90 degrees) off those creeks, and yes even down to my own tiny creek. I dug about 5 feet of rock and gravel and sand out of a 300 feet stretch over the years, used it all to build walls to line the creek and then back-fill with the smaller stuff. I'd always though all that material must have washed down the creek over the years, but when you then find incomplete, rounded, but still attached boulders in the creek bed, well, it changes the picture considerably.
And sometimes, the chunks were just too big to move, so I'd stand on them and go around in a circle hammering them with my 6-pounder, for hours sometimes until I heard that subtle change in sound that tells me I got it beat. So I'm not an expert on the types of rock, but have intimate knowledge of their properties!
Image
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Sparky » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:44 pm

I'd stand on them and go around in a circle hammering them with my 6-pounder, for hours
:roll:

Hmmmmmmm, ever hear of dynOmite? :oops: :?





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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:52 pm

it's an ongoing problem with what they call "rotten rock".


Some day that will all be clay.


...but it is the diversity of the colours, textures, inclusions, patterns of the pebbles in the river beds that is puzzling


Gravels are the very oldest rocky remains, as with the ancient stream beds exposed by present streams/rivers in old mountains, mentioned above.

…although the area outside of the river is all of a very consistent grainy grey basalt, ..


Basalts will typically be the newest rocky remains, and [unless they are surface beddings like the Deccan Traps, ( for which i think i've heard Starbiter offer an 'instantaneous' explanation)], often are consistent with upheaval, uplift (producing rockslides), volcanism and even fragmentation of continental 'plates' .


So I'm not an expert on the types of rock, but have intimate knowledge of their properties!


;) So you already have the hammer and safety glasses. Useful field guides to minerals and 10x jewelers scopes are cheap on the web, damn near free if you have Kindle.

It's obvious from your descriptions over the years, that you live in very complex lithic environs; so when looking for the outlines of the puzzle, the faults are your friends. In you haven't done all ready, a googlesearch and a few short chapters to understand the 6-8 primary types of faulting is invaluable, as i've learned from a few grizzled old oilfield geologists …

Not sure SPARKY is the one i'd want handling the dynamite :lol:
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:08 pm

the faults are your friends. In you haven't done all ready, a googlesearch and a few short chapters to understand the 6-8 primary types of faulting is invaluable, as i've learned from a few grizzled old oilfield geologists …


Everything is a fault to geologists it seems, even little short stretches of rock formation that present some not understood features are automatically assigned a fault designation. Yet in all the fault images I have looked at, it is obvious that you couldn't make all the strata line up nicely if you try moving the segments up or down. In the text books they show nice even thickness layers that would seem to indicate a vertical displacement, but in the real world, don't seem to exist. Again I see incredible EM forces at work, of magnitudes few can accept, and the processes involved very different from the purely mechanical ones. Sedimentation potentials, dielectric properties, inductive, capacitive, piezo, recrystalisation and volumetric changes, horizontal and vertical current flows, and other processes that have not even been considered, but are probably the real deal, rather than the very long period, deep heat and pressure, glacier, erosion, weathering ones.
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