Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Osmosis » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:37 pm

You may want to find a vector magnetometer to look for polarized areas of ground. Be sure you check for keys and magnetic shoes and stuff, before surveying.

Osmosis :D
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:41 pm

@ s
Reviews on Amazon:


I think I'll be doing some more research before melting my plastic!
Thought I'd have a search to see if there has been any surveys in river beds, and did find a couple, but many other potentially interesting links came up, haven't started to go through them yet. Here are a few:

Distinguishing buried alluvium from till by using detailed total-magnetic-field data
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/e90-047
Excerpts From USGS Sedona Magnetic Anomaly Survey:
http://sedonanomalies.com/usgs_magnetic ... survey.htm
The Earth's Magnetic Field and Plate Tectonics
http://sorcerer.ucsd.edu/ERTH50/Lect16_magnetics.pdf
Weird Magnetic Anomaly Reveals Ancient Tectonic Crash
http://news.yahoo.com/weird-magnetic-an ... EEdnRpZAM-
Sources of along-strike variation in magnetic anomalies
http://crustal.usgs.gov/projects/rgb/pr ... Grauch.pdf
A creationist site:
In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the ...
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... view3.html

Tectonics is used frequently it seems to explain the anomalies, but if the plate boundaries are really current channels? It doesn't appear so far that the boots-in-the-creek type of survey I have in mind has been performed, looking for much smaller scale anomalies. Will try to find someone in my area who could maybe advise of the best way to go about this, and possibly recommend the best equipment. Maybe Prof. Scott has some words of wisdom to offer?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:51 am

GaryN says,
...but my money is on rapid, high energy events.
Proof of such high energy events may be possible, and if I can come up with the money I will spring for a magnetometer from Alpha labs and try it out in my local area. My reasoning is that when the magma around here cooled it should have taken on the magnetic field present at the time, and that magnetic field would have a consistent orientation. If the high energy discharges I believe I see evidence for did occur, then the magnetic fields in the river and creek beds should show wildly erratic magnetic field signatures.

&
Tectonics is used frequently it seems to explain the anomalies, but if the plate boundaries are really current channels? It doesn't appear so far that the boots-in-the-creek type of survey I have in mind has been performed, looking for much smaller scale anomalies.



There are a couple of more ways to look at this, although the field work you are suggesting would be the most interesting and useful, and should receive the highest priority in working out any kind of electric geology.

First, as we are all constantly reminded, the proof for the spreading sea floors is that the magnetic striping along the Pacific sea mount reverses direction regularly.

But where else in the solar system do we see magnetic striping?
Image
I have enough brands in the fire right now, but this "image" of crustal magnetism on Mars comes to hand, right from one of Steve Smith's potds.
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:07 am

Another way of investigating alternative causes for magnetic properties in rocks which have cooled would be to work with exogenic fulgarites.

Here is an example of a fulgarite on a sidewalk in Pico Rivera.
Image

If you can get some magnetic readings from the site of a lightning strike on the ground, I think there may be some surprises in store!

Image ref: The picture is from a website that no longer exists. I have archived it here for educational purposes and discussion.
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:12 pm

@BB
If you can get some magnetic readings from the site of a lightning strike on the ground, I think there may be some surprises in store!


Cement would not retain any magnetism, though the soil may if it has Fe content. The river and creek rocks here do have magnetisable iron, which is why I want to do the creek bed tests. Localised fields from a strong discharge should be clearly evident. With visual observations, at large scales the overall view might be taken to show glacial or water erosion/weathering patterns, but on close examination the features would seem, to me, to be impossible from such processes. Strong, very localised magnetic fields similarly would seem to defy a more conventional explanation.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:00 pm

Cement would not retain any magnetism, though the soil may if it has Fe content.


True, that picture is more useful for looking at the scarring created by electricity as it travels along the surface.

Image

As fulgarites usually travel below the surface, there is still a potential for studying surprise fields from a naturally occurring electric arc.

Image

Red sand or sand with pyrite found in southern California deserts would be a place to look.

(Still, it makes you wonder why it traveled along the sidewalk the way it did. Perhaps it was very wet at the time.)
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby perpetual motion » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:12 pm

There is a lot of 3/4" gravel mixed in with cement or concrete, which ever you
prefer to say, that is what holds the cement together. The gravel has most all
the purities that could be magnetized (depending on location of the rock
quarries).
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:00 pm

Perpetual Motion says, "The gravel has most all
the purities that could be magnetized."

Ah good.

Depending on the resolution of the instrument GaryN has, he then may expect to find several magnetic orientations within the melted figure on the sidewalk.

Who knows what he would find.
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:15 pm

Gary N says, "The river and creek rocks here do have magnetisable iron, which is why I want to do the creek bed tests. Localised fields from a strong discharge should be clearly evident. With visual observations, at large scales the overall view might be taken to show glacial or water erosion/weathering patterns, but on close examination the features would seem, to me, to be impossible from such processes. Strong, very localised magnetic fields similarly would seem to defy a more conventional explanation."

That is so true. The use of paleomagnetic dating is only applied in a very selective way. And you can expect that --[even if you were to demonstrate a field] -- any change in magnetism will be attributed to a polar reversal or some polar wandering.

I think you will find the "strong, very localized fields." But not just one field. It is possible that the magnetic fields from a single discharge would show the striping.

So anticipating a complex pattern in the bed rocks, you need a comparison to fulgarites.

The instrument would be very handy for your purposes.

Will no one spend a few bucks on science anymore?!
Last edited by Brigit Bara on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:16 pm

(
Still, it makes you wonder why it traveled along the sidewalk the way it did.


Did you leave that open for me? The "path of least resistance"? :D

@perpetual motion
There is a lot of 3/4" gravel mixed in with cement or concrete


True, so maybe there will be a weak remnant field. What I am mainly looking to test is the theory that the rivers and creeks around here were created by a discharge running from ocean to mountain top up preexisting valleys in the bedrock, due to a very high vertical electric field gradient, likely from a huge solar flare or CME event. I also think it likely that evidence for lighting strikes many times greater in magnitude than anything ever observed or even believed possible may be identified. The larger scale magnetic anomalies are evidence to me that major modification of Earths surface has been by electrical and not tectonic methods, but perhaps only the demonstration of very localised anomalies can convince anyone of that. Seems like an experiment that should have been done long ago.

Just posted by BB:
Depending on the resolution of the instrument GaryN has


Don't have, yet. Really want to make sure that I am looking at the correct device, or devices perhaps, for the job and am hoping for some advice with those more familiar with them and their applications. Surely someone associated with TB should be knowledgeable.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:37 pm

GaryN wrote:(
Still, it makes you wonder why it traveled along the sidewalk the way it did.


Did you leave that open for me? The "path of least resistance"? :D




In my research I have found that lightning almost always travels below the surface. This is true of fulgarites on mountaintops, through rock, through sand, and in soil.

The entry point for the fulgarite in the picture from Arizona above is just a single glassy point on the sand. The lightning forms tubes under the surface.

In Florida there is a base that studies the way it travels underground. It sometimes follows alongside underground water after bolting straight down. I can give the ref from my notes later.

But sometimes it does make a dendritic figure on the surface. So the melted sidewalk and the burned golf course figures are more exceptions than rules. (That is what I have found to be true but I may be wrong because they are hard to find.)
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:10 pm

Still, it makes you wonder why it traveled along the sidewalk the way it did
.

Did you leave that open for me? The "path of least resistance"? :D
Winner of the gag of the month for February. :lol:
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I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:40 pm

"the path of least resistance"

And all the more funny because he's right.

Image


The bolt entered several feet away, and then decided it was easier to take the sidewalk than to work so hard traveling underground.

Maybe there was water covering the sidewalk at the time.


[attribution: This snip is from a website that no longer exists. Archived here for educational purposes.]
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:10 pm

GaryN » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:01 am

Thinking it would be respectful to the members of the Coast Salish I will be addressing to have some knowledge of their legends, I did some on-line searching, and found quite a lot of information.
This pdf document describes various accounts, and I think it does not take too much imagination to see a connection to what I believe would have been great catastrophe based on some great electrical and plasma events, and perhaps great vertical movements of the land.
NATIVE LEGENDS OF THE INDIAN ARM AREA

http://www.belcarra.ca/reports/Native_L ... m_Area.pdf


Gary,
I forgot to ask a while back, how did your presentation to the Salish go?
Were the elders able to add any color to the lacustrine "sea serpent" stories, etc.?
Any other serpent-like entities ?
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Re: Electro-Magnetic Geomorphology

Unread postby DJunqueira » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:34 pm

GaryN wrote:
Tsingy de Bemaraha Strict Nature Reserve

Spent about an hour looking at that area and much of Madagascar on Google Earth, and the signs of electrical activity are everywhere, to my eyes anyway. Zooming way out and then slowly back down, the larger scale Lichtenberg figures stand out really well from certain altitudes. Closer in there are structures identical to what is seen on Mars, maybe I'll spend some time and grab a bunch of screen shots, the resolution on G.E. is really very good nowadays.
The diversity of effects that can be produced by electromagnetic forces has not been fully realised by many even in the EU community it seems, especially the scale of the events involved, as the magnitude of what has happened, and the seeming recentness of those events would surely have to lead to a very different interpretation of the origin, survival and development of life on Earth.
I realise that more conventional explanations and long periods of time might possibly produce the same observed features, through the suggested Constructal law processes, but my money is on rapid, high energy events.
Proof of such high energy events may be possible, and if I can come up with the money I will spring for a magnetometer from Alpha labs and try it out in my local area. My reasoning is that when the magma around here cooled it should have taken on the magnetic field present at the time, and that magnetic field would have a consistent orientation. If the high energy discharges I believe I see evidence for did occur, then the magnetic fields in the river and creek beds should show wildly erratic magnetic field signatures. The large scale lightning discharge and shattered rock piles I see should clearly show magnetic anomalies, and I am assured that the EM2 is sensitive to extremely weak fields.

I send a e-mail to Dr. Robert Schoch of those pictures, her wife reply was as follows:

"...
Regarding your observations, they are remarkable! The images certainly provoke thought along the lines you suggest (that there are electrical forces at work in the shaping of these structures/sites). Unfortunately, though, Robert cannot offer any formal/professional opinions regarding these sites without seeing them firsthand (up close and in person). Photos can be very deceptive, and there are many factors to consider when one is actually inspecting a structure in person and on location.
...
Perhaps one day a full-scale research project could be launched to investigate your observations. Robert would be pleased to participate in the venture (of course details would have to be worked out), as plasma and the effects of our Sun on Earth are a great focus of his research now.
..."


I wonder if it could be found too in Mars...
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