Recovered: The Heat and Cold of Kesil and Khima

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Recovered: The Heat and Cold of Kesil and Khima

Unread postby titanic-nut » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:31 pm

:D The Heat and Cold of Kesil and Khima (Originally posted in August 2007 with approximately 680 hits)


In a Video presentation known as “Remembering the End of the World” David Talbott presents the Saturn configuration. The planets Earth, Mars, Venus, in that order, are lined up in a line around Saturn. At the very end of the video, Mars (which is moving back and forth between Earth and Venus) comes a little too close to Earth and the Saturn configuration starts to break up. One could imagine a powerful thunderbolts which would prevent an impact. Thus the title “Remembering the End of the World”. If David Talbott’s theory is correct, then there must have been a severe catastrophism on planet earth. Talbott uses the term “unthinkable” to describe this event. But could the Biblical Flood of Noah and the break up of the Saturn configuration be one and the same event?
Immanuel Velikovsky wrote a book titled In the Beginning which was published after his death. Among other things, the book addresses the flood of Noah. In the Section on Khima, Velikovsky states that the flood was caused by two stars that fell from Khima toward the earth. “Were it not for the heat of Kesil the world could not endure the cold of Khima; and were it not for the cold of Khima, the world could not endure the heat of Kesil.” Velikovsky goes on to identify Kesil or fool as Mars. The cooling effect comes from Khima or Saturn. Thus in Velikovsky’s version, Mars and Saturn are both associated with the great deluge.

In 1976, Reader’s Digest published a book with the title Strange Stories Amazing Facts. One article in this book describes "Ten-Thousand-Year-Old Steaks, The riddle of the mammoths that ate buttercups". According to the article, the meat was still good to eat after thousands of years (in other words, you do not get sick if you eat the meat). “If meat is frozen slowly at freezing temperatures, crystals form in the cells of the flesh, bursting the cells and dehydrating the meat. The meat experts estimated to freeze a mammoth with thick fur quickly enough to prevent the cells from bursting would require a temperature of -150 degrees F. This is still well above Absolute Zero which is -459 degrees Fahrenheit. In an attempt to explain the extreme cold, the Reader’s Digest article describes “fiery lava” and a “great discharge of volcanic gases” followed by “cold unimaginable”. Again we see heat (Khima) followed by cold (Khima ).

Can it be argued that this same cold was in part responsible for changes on Greenland? In the Zeno map of 1380, we can see Greenland apparently without the ice. Mountain ranges and river valleys are clearly visible.

http://www.helmink,com/Antique_Map_Ruscelli_Zeno/

However, Greenland presently has some 10,000 feet of ice. Not surprisingly, many people believe the Zeno map is a forgery. An exception is Charles Hapgood who wrote about the Zeno map and many other maps in his book Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings. Hapgood believed that the map was ice free when it was made. He theorized that it was a copy of an ancient map. Hapgood studied the Zeno map locating known points such as Cape Farewell at the tip of Greenland and Cape Lindesnes at the tip of Norway. He noticed the grid on the map was a polar one. He noticed that the grid on the map did not accurately accurately represent north for either Greenland or Norway, there should have been a much sharper convergence. To make the grid on the map work, Hapgood was forced to raise the pole so that the meridians for Cape Farewell and Cape Lindesnes would meet at precisely the angle of 49 1/2o (the correct longitude difference). It is interesting to study the Appendix of Hapgood’s book which shows the accuracy of numerous latitudes and longitudes using his geometry. The accuracy of the map is far greater than what one would expect for a fogery.

In addition to the maps, recent ice cores were made on Greenland. The NGRIP drilling site was at elevation 9,850 feet. The ice core extended 10,400 feet revealing plant and insect life. According to experts the ice layer must have formed very fast to preserve the vegetation. Again, we see evidence of a sudden catastrophic event. If the elevations are correct, this would indicate that the plant life was found over 500 feet below sea level. On page 154 of his book, Hapgood discusses the possibility that Greenland was at a higher elevation when the map was made. For more information about the ice cores, you may want to check out the following links.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6276576.stm
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-08/uoca-gic081304.php

In southeastern Turkey in the Mountains of Ararat near the town of Dogubayazit is a controversial “ship like object”. Since the object was not found on Ararat and since the geometric shape was not a rectangle, it has not drawn a great deal of attention in the press. Some claim that the “ship like object” is a freak of nature others that it is the Ark of Noah. The object suddenly appeared after several earthquakes struck Eastern Turkey in May 1948. It was photographed by a Turkish Air Force officer, Captain Ilhan Durupinar, in 1959. The object was described in books by David Fasold The Ark of Noah and David Allen Deal The Day Behemoth & Leviathan Died. Presently, the “ship like object is at elevation 6,300 feet. It is theorized that this object was once at a higher elevation on the mountain and then slid down to its present location. According to David Allen Deal, the “ship like object” original landing was in the lost City of Naxuam at elevation 7,400 feet. The object can be viewed at the following site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fasold

Outside of a global cosmic flood it would be hard to imagine a ship like object could get so high in the mountains. According to Genesis 7:19 , the flood waters rose until they covered even the highest mountains on earth. It appears that Greenland was once a tropical paradise, but now it is covered by some 10,000 feet of ice which hides a mountain range. Could this have been a result of the Heat of Kesil and the Cold of Khima? Post subject: Re: The Heat and Cold of Kesil and Khima Reply with quote
titanic nut wrote:


In 1976, Reader’s Digest published a book with the title Strange Stories Amazing Facts. One article in this book describes Ten-Thousand-Year-Old Steaks, The riddle of the mammoths that ate buttercups. According to the article, the meat was still good to eat after thousands of years (in other words, you do not get sick if you eat the meat). “If meat is frozen slowly at freezing temperatures, crystals form in the cells of the flesh, bursting the cells and dehydrating the meat. The meat experts estimated to freeze a mammoth with thick fur quickly enough to prevent the cells from bursting would require a temperature of -150oF. This is still well above Absolute Zero which is -459 degrees Fahrenheit. In an attempt to explain the extreme cold, the Reader’s Digest article describes “fiery lava” and a “great discharge of volcanic gases” followed by “cold unimaginable”. Again we see heat (Khima) followed by cold (Khima ).

Can it be argued that this same cold was in part responsible for changes on Greenland? In the Zeno map of 1380, we can see Greenland apparently without the ice. Mountain ranges and river valleys are clearly visible.

http://www.helmink,com/Antique_Map_Ruscelli_Zeno/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fasold

Outside of a global cosmic flood it would be hard to imagine a ship like object could get so high in the mountains. According to Genesis 7:19 , the flood waters rose until they covered even the highest mountains on earth. It appears that Greenland was once a tropical paradise, but now it is covered by some 10,000 feet of ice which hides a mountain range. Could this have been a result of the heat of Kesil and the cold of Khima?

The only way that meat could stay preserved like that IMO, is through vacuum packing.

Here is the scenario.

Why does lightning make thunder?

The explanation is that the heated air expands explosively.
But also you have a vacuum after the expansion, when the air contracts(cools). That I think would be more of the clap sound.

So after a giant thunderbolt you have a huge vacuum and then quick freezing.That would preserve the mammoth meat in the EU tradition.
_________________
Ron Paul Forum.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/index.php

titanic-nut responds: Could the vacuum be due to a polar shift causing a portion of the Earth's surface to be in the vacuum of space?


SOS Save Our Science.
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: The Ice Age Reply with quote
Biblical creationists will point out that when the "fountains of the deep" broke open in Noah's day, they would have released hot water into the oceans, warming them and causing a cycle of large amounts of evaporation and precipitation. Warm climates would have become verdant while ice caps would have been forming at the poles, glaciers accumulating at high elevation. As the oceans cooled down, the precipitation lessened, snow and ice were able to begin melting more than accumulating, and the Ice Age was eventually brought to an end.

The quick-freeze scenario is not likely, and the phenomena it is meant to explain has been overstated. This chapter from Michael Oard's book Frozen in Time discusses the validity of a quick freeze, but the rest of the book is also available online, and is well worth the read.



Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 292
Location: Adelaide

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: Reply with quote
First, the mammoths would have frozen about 10,000 years ago.
The cause of their freezing was that when the Saturn System
broke up Earth was sent away from the electrically produced
warming by Saturn, and into a region a long way from the Sun
near Saturn's present orbit. Thus the freezing conditions. Earth
then went into an elliptical orbit around the Sun producing the
interglacial warm periods when Earth was near the Sun and then
freezing condtions when far from the Sun.

Mo



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:14 am Post subject: Maybe, but probably not. Reply with quote
The problem with a scenario that only provides for a cooling cycle is that the cooling alone cannot account for increased snowfall. The air must also be humid, and cold air is dry; it cannot provide the amount of moisture necessary to begin an Ice Age. There must be a substantial source for the moisture, and warm oceans would provide it.

Try chapter 3 (scroll down) and chapter 8 of the book I cited earlier. Of course, the stuff in between is pretty helpful, too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:20 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
But could the Biblical Flood of Noah and the break up of the Saturn configuration be one and the same event?
Immanuel Velikovsky wrote a book titled In the Beginning which was published after his death. Among other things, the book addresses the flood of Noah. In the Section on Khima, Velikovsky states that the flood was caused by two stars that fell from Khima toward the earth. “Were it not for the heat of Kesil the world could not endure the cold of Khima; and were it not for the cold of Khima, the world could not endure the heat of Kesil.” Velikovsky goes on to identify Kesil or fool as Mars. The cooling effect comes from Khima or Saturn. Thus in Velikovsky’s version, Mars and Saturn are both associated with the great deluge.


You may find this article exerpt of interest:

Quote:
Despite our disagreement with Sieff's postulated identifications, we owe him a debt for it was he who supplied us with the crucial clue in favor of Velikovsky's alternative identifications. The clue in question is a passage from the Babylonian Talmud which Sieff, calling it a "curious comment," reproduced in his work.
"If it were not for the heat of Khesil [translated as Orion], the world could not exist for the cold of Khima [translated as Pleiades]; and if it were not for the cold of the Pleiades [Khima] the world could not exist for the heat of Orion [Khesil]."(66)
This is "curious" indeed because, in our own research, we had already come across similar statements in reference to Saturn in the work of Klibansky, Panofsky, and Saxl. In their co-authored work, Saturn and Melancholy, Saturn is called "cold" and "moist."(67)
The same work led us to identical statements by other authors. Abu Ma'sar, for instance, states:
"With regard to Saturn, his nature is cold, dry, bitter, black, dark, violent and harsh. Sometimes too it is cold, moist, heavy, and of stinking wind" (Emphasis added).(6Cool
So, also, with Alcabitius:
"He [Saturn] is bad, masculine, in daytime cold, dry, melancholy..." (Emphasis added).(69)
Epigenes of Byzantium classified Saturn as "cold and windy,"(70) while William of Conches tells us that "Saturn is called cold not because he is inherently cold himself but because he causes cold."(71)
What is also curious is that Sieff himself seems to have found no use for the Talmudic quote in question even though he showed an awareness of Saturn's frigidity when he stated:
"Saturn is the solar system's one 'treasury of snow;'... The Greeks associated the planet Saturn (Kronos) with snow and hail, which were thought to be the planet-god's weapons: Nonnos told of the 'shining victory of Zeus at war and the hailstorm snowstorm conflict of Kronos'."(72)
Dorotheus comes even closer to the statement we started with when he talks of "cold Saturn" and "hot Mars."(73) The best reference, however, comes from Pliny:
"Mars... has a fiery glow... owing to its excessive heat and Saturn's frost, Jupiter being situated between them combines the influence of each and is rendered healthy. "(74)
This last is almost an exact replica of the statement found in the Babylonian Talmud where the heating influence of Mars is ascribed to Khesil and the cooling one of Saturn to Khima. Here, we can also add another clue. C.H. Rawlinson, in his History of Herodotus, tells us that, among the stars, Hea was known under the name Kimmut.(75) Hea, the same as Ea, was Saturn while Kimmut recalls to mind the Khima of the Scriptures.
But perhaps of more importance is the following: In his identification of Khima as Venus, Sieff ignores the most persistent Jewish myth connected with this celestial body. Louis Ginzberg tells us:
"The flood was produced by a union of the male waters, which are above the firmament, and the female waters issuing from the earth. The upper waters rushed through the space left when god removed two stars out of the constellation Pleiades."(76)It was, therefore, from Khima/Pleiades that the Noachian Flood descended. Yet, throughout the world, we find traditions pointing to Saturn as the source of the Flood. This is a revelation which we owe to Velikovsky(77)





Quote:
5) During this catastrophe, Saturn was separated from the Earth while parts of its unique configuration, the axis mundi and some of its rings, were also dispersed. It is to this part of the scenario that the cutting to pieces of Osiris/Saturn belongs and not, as Mullen, Tresman, and O'Gheoghan earlier suggested, to the original flare-up of the "planet" as a short-lived stellar nova. The flare of the nova was the "birth" of the god; his "death" was something else.
6) In this way, Mars caused a second major Deluge when Saturn was forced to release the waters it had held in tidal captivity at the Earth's north polar region. (The first major Deluge seems to have been caused by Saturn's own flare-up when, according to Velikovsky, it dispersed the watery content of its structural envelope. There were, however, other minor deluges connected with Saturn.)
7) It was this second major Deluge that originated in the north pole.


The Mystery Of The Pleiades
Dwardu Cardona
Copyright (C) 1977/78 by Dwardu Cardona, Lewis M. Greenberg and Warner B. Sizemore.
_________________
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"....Ayn Rand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
titanic-nut
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:17 pm

Re: Recovered: The Heat and Cold of Kesil and Khima

Unread postby titanic-nut » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:13 pm

titanic-nut
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:17 pm

Re: Recovered: The Heat and Cold of Kesil and Khima

Unread postby lizzie » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:47 pm

"If it were not for the heat of Khesil [translated as Orion], the world could not exist for the cold of Khima [translated as Pleiades]; and if it were not for the cold of the Pleiades [Khima] the world could not exist for the heat of Orion [Khesil]."(66)

Mazzaroth
http://www.dragonstar5.com/mazzaroth.htm

Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

(Note: Only two constellations where the stars gravity actually interacts upon all the other stars in that constellation.)

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? Or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Mazzaroth
http://www.betemunah.org/mazaroth.html
.
The Mazzaroth, also known as the zodiac, is the name given to the pattern of stars found on the celestial equator, or ecliptic. The ecliptic is an imaginary zone of the heavens containing the twelve signs within which lie the paths of the principal planets, and through which the sun passes in its annual course

Mazzaroth
http://philologos.org/__eb-mazzaroth/

Did the Ice Age ever happen?

When the Earth Nearly Died
Compelling Evidence of A Catastrophic World Change 9,500 BC
(c) 1995 by By D S Allan and J B Delair. 386pp.
http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/cat/earth/

I just finished this book. I may not agree with their choice of the cosmic intruder, but they present some very interesting paleontological evidence.
lizzie
Guest
 


Return to New Insights and Mad Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests