Garden of Eden

[edcrater]

The Garden of Eden myth has been addressed by Wal Thornhill's theory of a planet inside the envelope of an L-Type Brown Dwarf, [or LTBD for short].

From Thoth archive:
"Since an electric star is heated externally a planet need not be
destroyed by orbiting beneath its anode glow. In fact life is not
only possible inside the glow of a small brown dwarf, it seems
far more likely than on a planet orbiting outside a star! This is
because the radiant energy arriving on a planet orbiting inside a
glowing sphere is evenly distributed over the entire surface of
the planet."

and from 'holoscience':

"The most benign situation for life in an Electric Universe is inside the electrical cocoon of a brown dwarf star. Radiant energy is then evenly distributed over the entire surface of any planet orbiting within the chromosphere of such a star, regardless of axial rotation, tilt, or orbital eccentricity.
The exceedingly thin atmosphere of such stars has the essential water and carbon compounds to mist down onto planetary surfaces. The reddish light is ideal for photosynthesis. Such a model provides one reason why the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) project is unlikely to succeed. Any advanced civilization on such a planet will be unaware that the universe exists outside its own stellar environment, and radio communication through the glow discharge of the star is impossible!"

***************************

This brilliant idea gives a situation that perfectly describes The Garden of Eden, The Time before Time, The Time before the Sun, where life was easy and all we had to do was pluck fruit from luxuriant growth [but not to eat the apples]. There was constancy, no time, no seasons, an apparently congenial climate, and no worries over falling real-estate prices.

We were orbiting inside the envelope of the LTBD with free light and heat from the electrical activity from the surface of the star somewhere above; indeed, everywhere above. Thornhill cites the expectation of water molecules in such an atmosphere, yielding luxuriant growth. Perhaps lower gravity too, to keep the sauropods happy, or perhaps just to keep them existing. It is assumed that life went from its origin to homosapsap during this time, duration uncertain.

I would like to discuss some of the issues arising.

Planets can be created by two means: the "beads-on-a-wire-z-pinch" and the "fissioning" process. Which one produced Earth? I think that is still open.

But how did the Earth get in there? If from "z-pinch", it seems unlikely that one body would form inside another. We are given the "beads on a wire" scenario, which seems to lead to discrete entities. And if from "fission" elsewhere, it seems unlikely that a body would be captured by an LTBD and orbit inside it. [Or is that a rash statement?]

Moving on, what about the status of Earth in its coccoon? I assume the LTBD had a core and an atmosphere above, just as a 'gas-giant' or a full star. Note that Thornhill refers to "the very thin atmosphere". And the Earth would have to be orbiting to avoid collision with the core. So the Earth is supposed to orbiting in the gas atmosphere of the host. Even though the atmosphere is very thin, does this enable orbit? Surely this would lead quickly to spiraling in? Just as space probes exercise 'atmospheric braking' to change the trajectories, would not the Earth lose velocity by friction? Or is there an electromagnetic way of maintaining the orbit? And what of strong tidal effects between Earth and the core, given the likelihood of close orbit? The Garden of Eden does not seem compatible with an environment subject to perpetual earthquakes. The idea is of benign constancy.

But what if there was no core, and the Earth was not orbiting, and just hanging there? The mass of gas would have a center of mass, and the Earth would still have to orbit that. The only solution seems to have the Earth AS the core. Then it could just sit there and do nothing in particular, and that would accord with the Garden environment. But that idea produces problems with how we got out!

So while the situation seems ideal for solving the start of man's history, it is difficult to see how it could have come about in celestial dynamics terms.

At some time, we were banished from the Garden, to fend for ourselves. Blame the serpents. The Earth was somehow expelled from the host LTBD, in what surely was some cataclysmic event - at the very least there would have been earthquakes, I assume. It must have passed through the glow discharge too, but I have no idea of the effect. [Wikipedia gives coolest brown dwarf as 550K, presumably at the surface. Would the atmosphere insulate the inhabitants?]

Was this Doomsday? Or does that term refer to the catastrophe era of relatively recent times?

Ultimately the Earth would have taken up some new station, either in orbit round the LTBD, or another body. Then the story would doubtless develop through phase-lock and polar configurations until the cataclysm of polar configuration break-up, and thence to the present era.

But would the earth have survived in the LTBD, and if so, would mankind have survived the expulsion of Earth from the LTBD to bring his Garden memories with him?

[davesmith_au]

Giday Ed, nice to see someone offering intelligent opinion and speculation on a subject which by its very nature is difficult to "know" much about. I won't try to answer your post piece by piece or with any authority, but simply add snippets of my own (very limited) understanding of the theories. These are bits I've gleaned not only from Wal's writings, but also from Dwardu Cardona's God Star and Flare Star.

We were orbiting inside the envelope of the LTBD with free light and heat from the electrical activity from the surface of the star somewhere above; indeed, everywhere above.

The "star" (or primordial sun - likely Saturn) was seen in the earliest days to be motionless above the north pole of Earth. Note "seen to be motionless" - that is, we were likely in polar alignment and spinning at the same rate. Possibly both being "spun" by the same current, flowing first through one and then the other, or perhaps in through the poles... that bit's totally my own speculation... During this time we were inside the plasmasphere (as you've said, envelope) of the parent star.

Planets can be created by two means: the "beads-on-a-wire-z-pinch" and the "fissioning" process. Which one produced Earth? I think that is still open.

But how did the Earth get in there? If from "z-pinch", it seems unlikely that one body would form inside another. We are given the "beads on a wire" scenario, which seems to lead to discrete entities. And if from "fission" elsewhere, it seems unlikely that a body would be captured by an LTBD and orbit inside it. [Or is that a rash statement?]

I don't know we can state only two possible processes for planets, nor possibly even two possible processes. Stars are understood to arise within a z-pinch, and then they would fission into two if put under sufficient electrical stress. If a small, dim star were to fission, is it not possible the electrical stresses experienced by the surface area of the two bodies would be low enough that both would effectively become planets, or one a brown dwarf and the smaller one a planet... I really am only thinking out loud here, just throwing it into the mix - and I probably don't have the technicalities correct, but I hope you get my drift.

Moving on, what about the status of Earth in its coccoon? I assume the LTBD had a core and an atmosphere above, just as a 'gas-giant' or a full star. Note that Thornhill refers to "the very thin atmosphere". And the Earth would have to be orbiting to avoid collision with the core. So the Earth is supposed to orbiting in the gas atmosphere of the host. Even though the atmosphere is very thin, does this enable orbit? Surely this would lead quickly to spiraling in? Just as space probes exercise 'atmospheric braking' to change the trajectories, would not the Earth lose velocity by friction? Or is there an electromagnetic way of maintaining the orbit?

It is possible the Earth was expelled from (the pole of) Saturn at some point (way, way back), yet not with enough "explosive" force to throw it beyond the plasmasphere - the current keeping them both (and the plasmasphere) spinning (as mentioned above), and like charges balancing out the gravity which otherwise would have pulled them together. This would overcome your friction problem. As noted, the Earth was likely NOT in orbit.

And what of strong tidal effects between Earth and the core, given the likelihood of close orbit? The Garden of Eden does not seem compatible with an environment subject to perpetual earthquakes. The idea is of benign constancy.

Given the situation I've mentioned above, synchronous rotation and a stable polar alignment, there would be no CHANGING gravity to cause changing tidal effects or earthquakes. In fact, this possibility is supported in God Star by noting that the Earth has not completely reverted to a perfect sphere, it is still slightly "egg shaped", which could be explained by the scenario suggested, that is, a constant gravitational pull (for a very long time) over the northern hemisphere.

But what if there was no core, and the Earth was not orbiting, and just hanging there? The mass of gas would have a center of mass, and the Earth would still have to orbit that. The only solution seems to have the Earth AS the core. Then it could just sit there and do nothing in particular, and that would accord with the Garden environment. But that idea produces problems with how we got out.

See above and below.

The Earth was somehow expelled from the host LTBD, in what surely was some cataclysmic event - at the very least there would have been earthquakes, I assume. It must have passed through the glow discharge too, but I have no idea of the effect.

Initially it is proposed that the Saturn system was meandering OUTSIDE our solar system, and was drawn in by a combination of it's trajectory and Sol's gravity. The severing from our initial host would have occurred as the plasmasphere of Saturn contacted the plasmasphere of Sol. Two Double Layers coming in contact... talk about all hell braking loose!

[Wikipedia gives coolest brown dwarf as 550K, presumably at the surface. Would the atmosphere insulate the inhabitants?]

Remember, the temperature below the Sun's photosphere is lower than that of the photosphere itself...

Was this Doomsday? Or does that term refer to the catastrophe era of relatively recent times?

Ultimately the Earth would have taken up some new station, either in orbit round the LTBD, or another body. Then the story would doubtless develop through phase-lock and polar configurations until the cataclysm of polar configuration break-up, and thence to the present era.

But would the earth have survived in the LTBD, and if so, would mankind have survived the expulsion of Earth from the LTBD to bring his Garden memories with him?

Once you take in what I've said above, it becomes evident that these last few statements are likely somewhat redundant, or at least should be re-phrased. I would highly recommend you read Dwardu's books if you can, whilst I wouldn't take it all to the bank (and neither would he, it has to be said), it does open the mind to some very interesting thoughts on all of this which would otherwise not enter one's realm of plausability or possibility. I hope my musings helped some.

Cheers, Dave Smith.

[edcrater]

Hi Dave, and thanks for your input. While it will take me a while to digest all your ideas, I have one immediate point, that perhaps you and others might like to take up.

Your 'start point' is completely different to mine [at least, as I understand you].

Your start point is in the polar configuration [you refer to 'earliest days'], and I wonder if you can generate the Garden conditions in that situation. Wouldn't conditions vary wildly according to location on globe? In the southern hemisphere, you don't see Saturn, but I'm not clear on what you do see. Illumination would seem to be from the sun [somehow, from somewhere, I'm unclear] and northern hemisphere people get the 'night light' of Saturn.

My start point in the Garden is one of uniform illumination everywhere from a constant sky. Constant everything, in fact, with nothing particularly visible in the sky. [A bit like Hitch-hikers Krikkiters, though they were surrounded by a dust cloud.] And indeed, nothing to stimulate the mind of man to do anything in particular, let alone draw pictures and make stories to explain the shocking sky. It's all warm and cosy, unthreatening, the womb.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Ed,
The Garden of Eden / Fall story in the Bible describes the alchemical process in reverse.