Are the planets growing?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Are mountain ranges artefacts of expansion?

Unread postby moonkoon » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:00 am

Discussion about possible earth expansion usually focuses on the ocean regions, and rightly so as that is where most of the newer surface of the earth is said to be located. But continental regions also show signs of having been affected by pull-apart forces, the African rift being the most notable example. And although they are not generally associated with expansion, I think there is evidence that some mountain ranges are products of expansion related tectonics.

To support this assertion I made a short clip of a virtual flyover of a portion of the Rocky Mountains of western Alberta, at roughly 52°N 116°E. The video starts with a view of what looks like a canyon wall, but it's not really... It does however give some indication of the scale of the activity that might be involved in the formation of mountains.

Note the odd looking surface at the 'top' of the 'canyon' which itself shows signs of earlier tectonic activity.

It seems that the 'canyon wall'/mountain range in the opening view is one fracture face of an overturned block of crust that, after fracturing, has had the rug pulled out from under it in a rapid, highly energetic event, causing it to topple. However in order to accommodate the depth of the crust fragment (it appears to be deeper than it is wide), some expansion of the underlying substrate would need to occur. Other similarly overturned blocks appear to be present in the vicinity.

It may be that a similar process involving crust fracturing together with stretching of the underlying mantle has been instrumental in creating the major mountain ranges of the continents.

There are plenty of other examples of toppled blocks but this one is easy to vizualize because of the banding/layering of the rocks and relatively uncomplicated displacements.

Here are a few stills from the video.


Looking up towards the rim of the 'canyon'.


Ascending to the rim of the 'canyon', the faulted, furrowed older surface comes into view.


A closer view showing partially dislodged blocks on the rim.


Rotated overhead view.


Now rotated 180°. The old, faulted surface has become one side of a mountain range.


Now rotated 270°, giving a side view of the old surface and an adjacent block.


Two toppled blocks.

I speculate that the apparent large scale crust disturbance is the result of very mobile mantle plume activity that causes doming of the crust leading to fracturing with horizontal expansion of the underlying mantle enabling the overturning of the top 20km or so of the crust.
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby rickard » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:25 am

ja7tdo wrote:hi,

Earth is growing? yes, I agree.

But do you think about water? also atmosphere.
If the earth expands, the seabed will expand and the sea water will run out.
It is necessary for the atmosphere to expand as well.
In order to explain the expansion of the earth, we have to solve many problems.

Earth expands during Ice Age ... ng-ice-age

According to the danish writer Martinus, water together with many other gasses, was created early in the formation of the earth, already when it was still a glowing plasma body, and I think that water is still being created in the interior of the earth, and one can see it rise in the mid ocean ridges.
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:48 am

Oh, this is really fun.

Way up thread people would talk about high oxygen levels for the reason how dinosaurs could exist. Now, they have done the study and the meme they are pushing is still in place forcing them to still make the claim, yet even in the article they mention that today's oxygen levels are higher. I added a highlight to that part.

So, if it takes high oxygen levels to have dinosaurs, where are they in this one gravity world. HA!

Rise of dinosaurs linked to increasing oxygen levels ... els/124435
Scientists have found that increasing oxygen levels are linked to the rise of North American dinosaurs around 215 M years ago.

by HeritageDailyAugust 21, 20195

A new technique for measuring oxygen levels in ancient rocks shows that oxygen levels in North American rocks leapt by nearly a third in just a couple of million years, possibly setting the scene for a dinosaur expansion into the tropics of North America and elsewhere. This is presented in a Keynote talk at the Goldschmidt Geochemistry conference, in Barcelona.

The US-based scientists have developed a new technique for releasing tiny amounts of gas trapped inside ancient carbonate minerals. The gases are then channelled directly into a mass spectrometer, which measures their composition.

Lead researcher, Professor Morgan Schaller (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, New York) said: “We tested rocks from the Colorado Plateau and the Newark Basin that formed at the same time about 1000 km apart on the supercontinent of Pangea. Our results show that over a period of around 3 million years – which is very rapid in geological terms – the oxygen levels in the atmosphere jumped from around 15% to around 19%. For comparison, there is 21% oxygen in today’s atmosphere. We really don’t know what might have caused this increase, but we also see a drop in CO2 levels at that time.”

“We expect that this change in oxygen concentration would have been global change, and in fact we found the change in samples which were 1000km apart. What is remarkable is that right at the oxygen peak we see the first dinosaurs appearing in the North American tropics, the Chindesaurus. The Sauropods followed soon afterwards. Again, we can’t yet say if this was a global development, and the dinosaurs don’t rise to ecological dominance in the tropics until after the End-Triassic extinction. What we can say is that this shows that the changing environment 215 M years ago was right for their evolutionary diversification, but of course oxygen levels may not have been the only factor”.

Chindesaurus was an upright carnivorous dinosaur (around 2m long and nearly 1m high). Found extensively in North America, with origins in the North American Tropics, it was a characteristic late Triassic Dinosaur of the American Southwest. It was originally discovered in the Petrified Forest National Park. The Sauropods, which appeared soon after Chindesaurus, were the largest animals ever to live on land.

Commenting, Professor Mike Benton (University of Bristol) said: ‘The first dinosaurs were quite small, but higher oxygen levels in the atmosphere are often associated with a trend to larger size. This new result is interesting as the timing of oxygen rise and dinosaur appearance is good, although dinosaurs had become abundant in South America rather earlier, about 232 million years ago.’ Professor Benton was not involved in this work; this is an independent comment.

At the time the gases were trapped, the Colorado Plateau and the Newark Basin were part of the giant supercontinent, Pangea. Both were located near the equator. The rocks containing the oxygen and carbon dioxide were dated by measuring the radioactive decay of Uranium which was found in the samples.

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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby ja7tdo » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:56 pm

allynh wrote:Rise of dinosaurs linked to increasing oxygen levels ... els/124435

The earth emits CO2 from the inside. CO2 is divided into nitrogen and oxygen when muons collide.

2CO2 + μ -> 2(C + O) + O2 -> 2N2 + O2

Part of O2->O3 combines with H+ in the atmosphere to become water.
Muon and CO2 concentration are correlated. ... atmosphere

Dinosaurs are not earth creatures. I think.
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:28 pm

Here is another fun, very large, pterosaur.

‘Frozen dragon of the north wind’ flew over North America 77 million years ago, scientists say ... tists-say/
Rebecca Tan
An artist's illustration of the Cryodrakon boreas, a new species of pterosaur that was identified in Alberta, Canada. (David Maas)

A new species of pterosaur, a flying reptile, has been identified in the vast, dry terrain of Canada’s badlands. On Tuesday, it was anointed as “Cryodrakon boreas,” Greek for “Frozen dragon of the north wind.”

The discovery may sound like something out of Westeros (who can forget Jon Snow, beleaguered king in the north, riding Rhaegal over the icy wilderness?) but “Game of Thrones” fans shouldn’t get too excited: According to researchers, Cryodrakon looked less like Daenerys Targaryen’s fire-breathing dragons than it did a giraffe-sized, reptilian stork.

The carnivorous animal lived in modern-day Alberta during the Cretaceous period around 77 million years ago, according to a study in the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology. It could grow to about 13 feet tall, with a wingspan of up to 30 feet, making it one of the largest flying animals ever. It had no chewing apparatus, so it would probably eat whatever was small enough to go down its gullet, including lizards, mammals and baby dinosaurs.

Like other pterosaurs, the Cryodrakon had quite awkward proportions, with a long neck, huge wings and a slender head about 3.5 times the length of its body. As one expert said, imagine a “giant flying murder head.” Alternatively: “A pair of wings that carry around a big head for guzzling things.”

Researchers said that while the pterosaur’s new name was more inspired by Alberta’s frigid landscape than it was by “Game of Thrones,” they were aware that it might elicit some comparisons.

“Yes, we had a good, personal chuckle about that,” said Michael Habib, a paleontologist at the University of Southern California and a fan of the show.

François Therrien, curator of dinosaur paleoecology at Alberta’s Royal Tyrrell Museum of Paleontology, noted that while modern-day Alberta is known for its harsh winters, the landscape that the Cryodrakon would have soared over in the late dinosaur age would actually have been a tropical paradise near a large inland sea.

An artist's illustration of the Cryodrakon boreas. (David Maas)

The fossils that were used to establish the Cryodrakon’s holotype — a single specimen upon which the new species is established — were discovered some 30 years ago in Alberta’s Dinosaur Provincial Park, known for being one of the richest sources of dinosaur fossils in the world. Until recently, however, the remains were thought to belong to an already known species of pterosaur, called the Quetzalcoatlus, first found in Texas.

Habib, one of the few scientists in the world who has worked extensively with Quetzalcoatlus fossils, said that when he first saw the Canadian pterosaur four years ago, he had a hunch that it was not what he had seen before. While its neck bones were long like a typical Quetzalcoatlus, its proportions did not match up.

He enlisted the help of David Hone, a specialist in pterosaur taxonomy, the classification of organisms, who realized that the remains in Alberta were exceptionally well preserved. The skeleton that researchers worked with consisted of parts of the animal’s wings, legs, neck and rib — a remarkable sample, he said, given that the bones of these types of reptiles tend to be thin and fragile, causing them to disintegrate over time.

“This type of pterosaur [azhdarchids] is quite rare, and most specimens are just a single bone,” Habib told SciTech Daily. “Our new species is represented by a partial skeleton. This tells us a great deal about the anatomy of these large fliers, how they flew, and how they lived.”

Hone had a “Eureka moment” early on when he discovered a particular pattern of holes in the fossils that seemed unique, but it took him and the other researchers several years more to cross-check the specimen with pterosaur remains in Mongolia, France and elsewhere to confirm that this was a new species, he said.

Now that they have, however, the possibilities for future research are expansive, Therrien said.

“I tell my students all the time, taxonomy is the most fundamental bit of biological science,” said Hone, director of the biology program at Queen Mary University of London. “If you don’t know what species you’ve got, how do you know what else is going on?”
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