Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:28 pm

(With apologies to GC for not getting proper-shod yet and continuing to hi-jack his thread.)


Yes, maybe we should tread more softly on his dreams.

Meanwhile, seasmith might have a good idea there...you know what:

I'm...
going back to Saturn where the rings all glow
Rainbow, moonbeams and orange snow
On Saturn
People live to be two hundred and five
Going back to Saturn where the people smile
Don't need cars cause we learned to fly
On Saturn
Just to live to us is our natural high

-S. Wonder- Saturn - Songs in the key of life
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:08 pm

Their work done, Arc and Stefan ride off into the sunset:
Riders.jpg
Cowboys

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:29 pm

GreyCloud wrote:Their work done, Arc and Stefan ride off into the sunset:

:lol:
Hey ho Silver, you may also call me Harmonica
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6BQKFs3-VM

GreyCloud wrote:Just for the record I'm not saying any of these dates are set in stone. I'm just using them to play around with.

Any thoughts?


Well it's not my thought, but this danish guy found it not set in stone, but in ice...

A Danish ice drilling project has conclusively ended the discussion on the exact date of the end of the last ice age.

The extensive scientific study shows that it was precisely 11,711 years ago - and not the indeterminate figure of ‘some’ 11,000 years ago – that the ice withdrew, allowing humans and animals free reign.
Kilometres of ice
It took several thousand years to warm up the earth and melt the kilometre thick ice caps that covered large parts of the northern hemisphere during the last glacial period and as a result the transition from Ice Age to the current period has lacked a clearly defined point in time.
Image
“Our new, extremely detailed data from the examination of the ice cores shows that in the transition from the ice age to our current warm, interglacial period the climate shift is so sudden that it is as if a button was pressed”, explains ice core researcher Jørgen Peder Steffensen, Centre for Ice and Climate at NBI at the University of Copenhagen.
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article611464.ece
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe? Babel

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:04 am

I have one for ya.

Genesis 2:10-14: "Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four river heads." One river is described as "encompassing the whole land of Havilah," one "encompasses the whole land of Cush." One "goes toward the east of Assyria...The fourth is the Euphrates." These are odd verses and rarely ever referred to, because they do not seem to match any terrain known today.

IMHO, this describes a smaller globe, and the four rivers were the great mid-ocean ridges, for reasons I will try to show.

Gen. 11:25a: "To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided..." This has always been interpreted as referring to the Tower of Babel (Gen 11:1-9), a narrative most people are familiar with:

Apparently man did not care to "multiply and fill the earth," (Gen 9:1) but instead decided to build a great city; "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."

The Divine response? "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." "So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth." (Gen 11:8,9)

I believe this is a much overlooked cataclysm. The Babel narrative is not as quaint as children's Bibles picture it. It was a catastrophe of such grand proportions that the people that were "scattered abroad over the face of all the earth" did not find each other again until 1492 AD--thousands of years later. It is interesting to note that the ages for cities and written languages in South America have been pushed back to 3,000 BC (see Caral), the same time they appear in the ME, indicating to me that man once moved with relative ease around the world.

Although the traditional interpretation limits the Babel event to simply a confusion of tongues, in other verses, as you can see, it is not just languages that were divided. The "earth was divided," and the "nations were divided on the earth." (11:25 and 10:32)

This event is given a time frame--it was during the life of Peleg. Peleg lived for a short 269 years--little more than half of his father's lifetime, but more than twice that of his great grandson. It is said that "in his days, the earth was divided." Peleg is a name taken from the primitive Hebrew root, "palag," meaning divide. The Hebrew word "peleg" means a channel, a river, or a stream. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance give the meaning of the name "Peleg" as "earthquake." I submit that the earth was divided along the rivers mentioned in the Garden of Eden--or mid-ocean ridges--which separated the continents and formed the ocean basins, by expansion. It was a time of horrendous geologic upheaval and earthquakes. I happen to be persuaded that the date for this is around 2100 BC. This lady has a neat website on the collapse and depredation of various cultures at the time
http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari2.htm

Cultures all over the world developed almost in isolation, as journeys between them were now impeded by the Atlantic, the Pacific, mountain ranges, frozen poles, and deadly deserts. God seems to have had no more trouble with towers or arguments about "filling the earth" after that.

--brigitbara

PS, Hope you enjoyed my unique interpretation of Babel! :)

PPS, I noticed some of you think it is pure silliness that catastrophic events have always been interpreted as Divine judgment. I wonder how you can hold that position, if you are familiar with some of the practices of the ancient world. It is now well attested that canabalism was widespread in N&S America and in Europe and Africa. You also are aware that the Central and South American Indians were not just makers of lovely calenders. Their gods required human sacrifices. In one temple it is said that 83,000 people were sacrificed in one day, by removing the heart and throwing the kidnapped victim over the side of the ziggurat. People knew what they were doing was wrong.
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:17 am

Hi Stefan,
The article on the ice cores confused me. How can he date ice that has melted? He gives a date of 11,711 y.a. and says the ice took a thousand years to melt away. How can he differentiate between ice age ice and the ice that came after his 11,711 date?

Tinariwen are then due to return to Europe in late June to perform at the major summer festivals. Watch this space for details.
http://www.tinariwen.com/story.php?newsID=7
I would love to see them perform outdoors.
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Solar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:02 am

Grey Cloud wrote:How can he differentiate between ice age ice and the ice that came after his 11,711 date?


That is the first thing that I wondered also. Plant spores??
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:20 am

Solar wrote:
Grey Cloud wrote:How can he differentiate between ice age ice and the ice that came after his 11,711 date?


That is the first thing that I wondered also. Plant spores??

Hi Solar,
Glad it's not just me. The English article didn't mention anything other than ice cores. I have a friend in Demark so I might ask him if he can track down the original Danish article to see if it throws any more light on the subject. Unless Stefan knows more?
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Solar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:50 am

It's analogous to counting tree rings; only stratigraphically through layers of ice. But it seems that at some point those layers would be obliterated from weight. Must be isotope dating.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby StefanR » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:42 am

Maybe a little trip to the Niels Bohr Institute might help:

Denmark is now the holder of the international standard reference, which precisely defines when the ice age ends and the modern age begins. The answer lies in the ice cores from the NorthGRIP drilling in Greenland. Researchers from the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of Copenhagen have analysed these ice cores and found that there was an abrupt climate change from the ice age to the modern age. This means that the ice age did not, as believed until now, end around 11.000 years ago – no, it ended 11.711 years ago.

How long is a meter? – how much does a kilo weight? – how long is a second? Yes, if it was not for a standard size for the units of measurement, it could vary a great deal depending on who measured or weighed something. That is why international standard sizes have been implemented, which all measuring instruments in the world should be calibrated to. For example, the standard for a kilogram is in Paris.

The yardstick of the age
But there are other standards, which require international agreement. The earth’s geological ages are important to map life and events in the earth’s history. The geological ages are the ‘yardstick of the age’, which is defined by the transition from one state of the planet to another.
http://www.nbi.ku.dk/english/news/modern_age_is_defined/

Above link also has a movie at the bottom.

The Greenland ice cap is formed from snow that year after year remains and eventually is compacted into ice. The annual layers tell about the climate in the years the snow fell, so the ice is an archive of the climate of the past and ice core drillings through the three-kilometer thick ice cap show the climate 125,000 years back in time.

The last ice age in the northern hemisphere ended in violent temperature fluctuations consisting of two warming periods interrupted by a cold period. The first abrupt warming period occurred 14,700 years ago. The temperature in Greenland rose more than 10 degrees and during the milder climate, called the Bølling Period, the first Stone Age people set off towards Northern Europe and Scandinavia. But the good times were not destined to last. The ice age returned again 12,900 years ago with a new severe cold period that lasted until 11,700 years ago when the ice age finally ended. The Greenland ice cores that reflect the climate in the Northern Hemisphere show that the climate changes occurred incredibly quickly.
........
The new data from the ice cores show that the climate shifted from one year to the next. The ice’s annual layers have been analysed at very high resolution for a series of substances, each of which tells something about the climate in its own way.

Dust. The amount of dust has been measured. The colder the climate is, the more dust in the Earth’s atmosphere and more dust is blown in and settles on the ice cap.
Oxygen. The amount of the special oxygen isotope O-18, which tells about the temperature where the precipitation falls, is measured. The higher the O-18 content the warmer the local climate at the location of precipitation.
Hydrogen. The amount of the special hydrogen isotope deuterium is also measured. An excess of deuterium tells about the temperature where the precipitation (water vapor) originated. Air masses circulate in currents around the Earth and the larger the excess of deuterium, the warmer the climate was in the area of origination.

First, the dust content begins to change and decrease to a tenth in the course of a few decades. As the dust in the ice mainly comes from Asia, the researchers conclude that climate changes occurred distant from Greenland.

“A few years later the precipitation changes. Our measurements show that the excess of deuterium in relation to O-18 changes over the course of very few years. This means that the water vapor that flows over Greenland comes from other areas. The conclusion is that there occurred lightning quick and dramatic changes in the weather systems over the Atlantic”, explains Sune Olander Rasmussen, ice core researcher at the Center for Ice and Climate at the Niels Bohr Institute.

“Even though the climate changes at the end of the ice age appear to have been most violent in the North Atlantic, our measurements suggest that they are triggered by changes in the tropics. We can also see that when the climate changes dramatically, it is the atmospheric circulation that has changed fundamentally”, concludes Dorthe Dahl-Jensen.

http://www.nbi.ku.dk/english/news/ice_cores_show_abrupt/

And as an additional search goodie:

Passage graves are mysterious barrows from the Stone Age. New research from the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of Copenhagen indicates that the Stone Age graves’ orientation in the landscape could have an astronomical explanation. The Danish passage graves are most likely oriented according to the path of the full moon, perhaps even according to the full moon immediately before a lunar eclipse. The results are published in the scientific journal Acta Archaeologica.

Claus Clausen, who graduated as astronomer from the Niels Bohr Institute, has also always been interested in archeology. There are many Stone Age graves in Denmark, where archaeologists estimate that around 40.000 large stone graves were built from around 3500 to 3000 BC. Only about 500 of the large passage graves, called giant tombs (in Danish Jaettestuer) are preserved today, but one of the great mysteries is their orientation in the landscape.
http://www.nbi.ku.dk/english/news/passage_graves_from_an_astronomical/


GreyCloud wrote:I would love to see them perform outdoors.

I would love to see them perform outdoors on Greenland.
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:12 am

Hi Solar and Stefan,
Thanks for the additional info. The upshot appears to be that the 11,711 y.a. date is purely arbitrary, i.e. it is just an agreed reference point.
I had a read about dendrochronology and sea-bed sediments from the link provided by Solar and the dates obtained by these methods are also very dependent on interpretation (backed up by statistics).
As for the Barrows in the link from Stefan, it would seem the experts need to speak with our very own Kevin. I will forward that link on to my friend in Denmark (Ivar/Space Traveller).
His two sites:
http://www.native-science.net
http://www.cosmology-unified.net
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby StefanR » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:58 am

Thanks for the additional info. The upshot appears to be that the 11,711 y.a. date is purely arbitrary, i.e. it is just an agreed reference point.
I had a read about dendrochronology and sea-bed sediments from the link provided by Solar and the dates obtained by these methods are also very dependent on interpretation (backed up by statistics).

I'll have to humbly disagree to that as from the exact link of Solar it states clearly:

One of the biggest problems in any ice core study is determining the age-depth relationship. Many different approaches have been used and it is now clear that fairly accurate time scales can be developed for the last 10,000 years. Prior to that, there is increasing uncertainty about ice age. The problem lies with the fact that the age-depth is highly exponential, and ice flow models (e.g. Dansgaard & Johnson, 1969) are often needed to determine the ages of the deepest sections of ice cores.

http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/3-3-2-3.php

So while I'm not saying that all of the ice-core record is accurate, the time-frame, in which this determination of 11700 has been made, is till in the fairly accurate zone. It has been correlated with three factors, so I think you can mark a nice notch on the event-line of catastrophes.
As for dendronology and sea-bed sediments, they do seem to have more problems as you state, but those where not involved in this research.
Thanks for the links, I believe I have seen them before. 8-)
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:31 pm

Hi Stefan,
Fair enough... but:
The problem lies with the fact that the age-depth is highly exponential, and ice flow models(e.g. Dansgaard & Johnson, 1969) are often neededto determine the ages of the deepest sections of ice cores.
I read 'ice flow models' as 'movable goalposts' and 'often' as 'when required'.
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby StefanR » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:25 pm

Yes, but the next section it says:
For example, the upper 1000m of a core may represent 50,000 years, whilst the next 50m may span another 100,000 year time period, due to the severe compaction, deformation and flow of the ice sheet in question.


Combine that with the :
fairly accurate time scales can be developed for the last 10,000 years. Prior to that, there is increasing uncertainty about ice age. The problem lies with the fact that the age-depth is highly exponential


Where I seem to read "prior to that" which has a probable relation to the distortions attributal to compression and shear occuring in a ice-mass on a solid underground. But I also read "prior to that" also as "the layers below" the fairly accurate layer. ;)
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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby nick c » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:25 pm

hello all,
I would not place much emphasis on the ice core data as it is based on erroneous assumptions. The glacier has several melts and freezes as well as snowstorms in the course of one year forming multiple layers, which could later be counted as several years. Layers represent warm/cold/warm/cold etc, not years.
http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophi ... s/ice.html
Isotope seperation is not related to age:
http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/floods/ice4

Then there is the lost squadron of 1942. Two US [url2=http://p38assn.org/glacier-girl.htm]B-17 bombers and six P-38[/url2] fighters forced landed on the Greenland glacier in WWII. An expedition was sent in the 1980's to find the airplanes. The airplanes were no where near where the models predicted. When they finally found the squadron they were over a mile off laterally, and 180 ft deeper (at 268' as opposed to the predicted 80'.) This embarrassment is sometimes explained in typical ad hoc fashion to salvage the model, the planes must have sunk into the ice. That is untenable as they were not filled with snow or ice but were hollow, and if objects can travel downward in a glacier does that not in itself call into question the value of the dating of cores? and why was not that taken into consideration when they made their prediction of where the squadron was located? There were hundreds of layers of ice above the airplanes.
[This leads me to conclude that they forced landed during the American Revolution, perhaps Gen. Washington sent them out on a mission to bomb King George's frigates :shock:]
The point here is that we have a 40+ year experiment on a Greenland glacier and the accepted model failed miserably.

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Re: Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:56 pm

Hi Brigit and welcome,
First of all thank you for reminding me of Timo's website, I'd forgotten about it. (I think you will find that Timo is a male name).
You wrote:
Genesis 2:10-14: "Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four river heads." One river is described as "encompassing the whole land of Havilah," one "encompasses the whole land of Cush." One "goes toward the east of Assyria...The fourth is the Euphrates." These are odd verses and rarely ever referred
to, because they do not seem to match any terrain known today.
IMHO, this describes a smaller globe, and the four rivers were the great mid-ocean ridges, for reasons I will try to show.

From the Septuagint at http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Genesis/2.html
10 And a river proceeds out of Edem to water the garden, thence it divides itself into four heads.
11 The name of the one, Phisom, this it is which encircles the whole land of Evilat, where there is gold.
12 And the gold of that land is good, there also is carbuncle and emerald.
13 And the name of the second river is Geon, this it is which encircles the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the third river is Tigris, this is that which flows forth over against the Assyrians. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
So:
A. We the Tigris, the Euphrates, Assyria, Ethiopia (Cush) yet you say it does not seem to match any known terrain.
B. How does any of this passage imply a smaller globe?
C. How do you get 'mid-ocean ridges' from a country in the Middle East?
D. What four oceans would these be?
E. How does one plant a garden whose borders are mid-ocean ridges?
You wrote:
Gen. 11:25a: "To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided..." This has always been interpreted as referring to the Tower of Babel (Gen 11:1-9), a narrative most people are familiar with
(It's Gen. 10:25). A quick wiki:
Eber:
The name "Ever" עבר (Hebrew root letters ayin ע, bet/vet ב and reish ר, transliterated in English to "Eber" or "Heber") along with the name Habiru are considered by Biblical scholars to be the roots of the word "Hebrew" (ivri עברי and ivrit עברית, in Hebrew), with "ever" most often meaning "side" or "beyond", but also region beyond or across, opposite side, or passage, as in me'ever מעבר and maavar מעבר in both Biblical and Modern Hebrew as spoken in Israel today.
Peleg:
Peleg, Phaleg in the Douay-Rheims, (Hebrew: פֶּלֶג / פָּלֶג, Standard Péleg / Páleg Tiberian Péleḡ / Pāleḡ ; "Division") is one of the two sons of Eber, the ancestor of the Hebrews according to the so-called "Table of Nations" in Genesis x, xi and 1 Chronicles i.
Joktan:
Joktan or Yoktan (Hebrew: יָקְטָן, Standard Yoqtan Tiberian Yoqṭān ; Arabic: قحطان, Qahtan; "little") was the second of the two sons of Eber (Gen. 10:25; 1 Chr. 1:19) mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. His name means "small" or "smallness".
What, if anything does this tell us? It always strikes me as an amazing coincidence how the names of Biblical characters always reflects what the get up to in the Bible.

Gen 11:4 states:
4 And they said, Come, let us build to ourselves a city and tower, whose top shall be to heaven, and let us make to ourselves a name, before we are scattered abroad upon the face of all the earth.
This implies that they knew they were to be scattered abroad before the omniscient Lord spotted them (Gen. 11:5-6).
Gen.11:8 states:
And the Lord scattered them thence over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city and the tower.
Nothing is destroyed here - there is no catastrophe.
You wrote:
It was a catastrophe of such grand proportions that the people that were "scattered abroad over the face of all the earth" did not find each other again until 1492 AD--thousands of years later. It is interesting to note that the ages for cities and written languages in South America have been pushed back to 3,000 BC (see Caral), the same time they appear in the ME, indicating to me that man once moved with relative ease around the world.
Where to begin with this?
A. I've mentioned the non-catastrophe above.
B. My Biblical timeline based on the LXX shows that Peleg was around 2708 BCE. This is contemporaneous with The Egyptian 2nd Dynasty and the 1st Dynasty of Kish.
C. Sumer had been and gone.
D. India at this time was doing very nicely thank you.
E. Stonehenge was up and running.
F. The Clovis culture is reckoned to go back to 13,000 y.a.
G. History did not begin with Columbus.
You wrote:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance give the meaning of the name "Peleg" as "earthquake." I submit that the earth was divided along the rivers mentioned in the Garden of Eden--or mid-ocean ridges--which separated the continents and formed the ocean basins, by expansion.
Can you give a link for where Strong's mentions 'earthquake'? I
couldn't find it, though the other words used could imply seismic activity.
If one looks at this (maximised) map:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_e ... c_2003.jpg
one will notice that the waters in the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf are relatively shallow. One will also observe that, certainly in the Red Sea, there appears to be a deeper channel - possibly a former river?
There is a similar feature in the Persian Gulf but it is not so obvious on this particular map. Also notice how narrow the Red Sea is at Djibouti and the Persian Gulf at the Strait of Hormuz. If the channel in the Red Sea was a river then it would possibly qualify as the Gehon
which 'encompasses the whole of Ethiopia'.
If one then takes at peek at this map which shows the terrain:
http://map.vbgood.com/Iraq/middle_east%20map.jpg
one will notice that the Iranian side of the Persian Gulf is almost entirely mountainous while the Arabian Peninsula is pretty flat and exposed. In fact the terrain of the Arabian Peninsula is mountainous on the western side and the far North. This suggests to me that Noah's
world-wide Deluge was in fact a flooding of the Arabian Peninsula, i.e. between the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea.
Seismic activity, sea-level rises, plasma malarchy, or combinations thereof - take your pick. The arrival of the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf would also account for your 'Earth was divided'. (At least until a nation of farmers learned how to build boats).
You wrote:
PPS, I noticed some of you think it is pure silliness that catastrophic events have always been interpreted as Divine judgment. I wonder how you can hold that position, if you are familiar with some of the practices of the ancient world. It is now well attested that canabalism
was widespread in N&S America and in Europe and Africa. You also are aware that the Central and South American Indians were not just makers of lovely calenders. Their gods required human sacrifices. In one temple it is said that 83,000 people were sacrificed in one day, by
removing the heart and throwing the kidnapped victim over the side of the ziggurat. People knew what they were doing was wrong.
It is not just 'some of us who think it is pure silliness', some of the world's greatest minds from several continents thought so too. It is
only the Abrahamic one-book-wonders who are obsessed with judgement, punishment and sin. Gods are a later invention of humans.
I would suggest that cannibalism only arrived post-castastrophe. And where did you get 83,000 people being sacrificed in one day from? They would have to be sacrificed by machine-gun to get through that many in a day. If you are referring to the Aztecs, which you sem to be, then they were not ancient but mediaval. And you may want to think about what those lovely god-fearing Christians were doing to people in Europe at the time. Ever heard of the Inquisition, the Crusades, witch-hunts, etc? Also you might want to try reading the OT to see how many Hebres,Jews and Israelites God slaughters either deliberately, incidentally or accidentally. To say nothing of the other peoples who are obliterated much to the glee of the authors of the OT.
You wrote:
People knew what they were doing was wrong.
Wrong by whose standards? The Aztecs thought they were re-charging the Sun by giving back the energy (or life-force) of the sacrificed. The 'victims' were sacrificed to save the world. Part of this ritual involved something called the 'opening of the mouth' which sounds entirely similar to an Egyptian ritual.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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